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I need help and advice concerning a matter

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by ZenchiZennou, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. ZenchiZennou

    ZenchiZennou r/steamgameswap moderator Friend Community

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    Steam:
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    Friday evening someone on CSGO Lounge posted in one of my trading threads asking for PAYDAY 2. I told the person to add me or to send me a trade offer. A little later I notice a trade offer for the game and accept it. About 90 minutes later I realize that the gift that the person chose in the trade was a PAYDAY 2 4-pack. I immediately sent a friend request and posted a comment on the user's Steam profile. He then adds me instead almost immediately.

    I tell the person that I messed up and gifted a PAYDAY 2 pack instead of a single gift. He tells me he already traded the gift to one of his friends. The person already owned PAYDAY 2 and apparently got the game for his friend or to trade. I tell him to ask his friend about it and he tells me that his friend sold the gifts for case keys to open cases. Afterwards I ask him to show his trading history and to tell me who this friend was. Instead of being helpful, he takes very long to reply to my questions and for the entire duration of the conversation he stays in-game in PAYDAY 2.

    At first I honestly thought that he didn't know about the pack like he said, but soon I caught him lying a few times about the pack and what happened to it. After insisting for a long time to show me his trade history he gives me a screenshot that shows that he trades 3 PAYDAY 2 gifts to someone. I tell him whether he just traded the pack or the pack and other gifts and he tells me that he only traded the pack and that's how it showed up in his trade history. This is when I knew for certain that something was wrong because a pack is shown as a single item in the trade history. I confront him about this and tell him that he knew he had a pack and that someone must have opened it for him because he already has the game in his Steam library (a pack can only be opened by someone that doesn't have the game yet).

    He laughs away what I'm saying and he clearly doesn't know much about how packs work or he thinks I'm an idiot. From the very beginning of the chat he acts as if it has nothing to do with him and makes up all sort of excuses. From the trade history I find his friend which is on his friendlist and I tell him that I added him. His friend has a private profile and he says that his friend is not likely to be helpful because he's not a trustworthy person. After a while he gets irritated about everything and blocks me. I posted a comment on his Steam profile telling him that I will be heading to bed and that he should add me back to resolve the situation. I haven't heard anything since and I'm not expecting much at this point.

    I know I messed up, but it's clear from my point of view that the person wasn't honest, knew about the pack and maybe even chose the pack to take advantage of a moment of weakness on my part. Should I report him over here on SteamRep and Steam? I know that trade offers aren't covered by Valve since there are a few steps to confirm the trade and I'm not sure what they think about trading packs either. I realize very well I'm at least partly to blame for this situation. The person I traded with has a warning on his Steam profile to scammers, but has no problem taking advantage of a situation that's in his benefit.

    I have screenshots of the chat, but the very beginning of the conversation is missing because it was a long chat that took quite some time. I also have a screenshot of one trade in his trade history where it shows how he sends 3 PAYDAY 2 gifts to someone.

    Sorry for the long wall of text, thank you for your time and for any help with this matter.
  2. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:0:89705646
    Trade offers are quite treacherous. Problems here are:
    - They do not require a negotiation by both parties prior to do the trade offer. It is offered as it is.
    - We do not "observe" required values for things. We do not feel it is our place to "police" what has what value. The trading environment decides upon that. Not we, and we cannot enforce that.
    - The trade offer was a abuse of you being misinformed.

    I'd have to conclude you where "sharked", pretty close to scammed, but still category sharked. We do not handle sharking for a number of reasons (partly for above). Valve sees trade offers as "final". All you can do is a profile report on his steam account. Some of our friend/partner communities do ban for sharking, you might consider reporting it to them.

    My advice regarding trade offers is to either:
    - Check twice what is being traded. Any text does NOT tell you what is traded, only the items itself.
    - Set up your own trade offers instead of telling the other party. That way it is your own fault for selecting the wrong items.
    - If unsure: Set up counter trade offer, or do a normal trade.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
    Tio José das Vacas likes this.
  3. ZenchiZennou

    ZenchiZennou r/steamgameswap moderator Friend Community

    Messages:
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    Steam:
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    In the trading thread where I posted the PAYDAY 2 trade it was clear that I was asking 4 keys in return for a PAYDAY 2 gift. So the agreement was to trade 4 keys for single gift and certainly not an entire pack with 4 copies of the game. A pack is valued around 15 keys. The person that sent me the trade offer was well aware of this. When I added him on Steam after realizing my mistake he first acted as if he knew nothing about the pack and told me he just traded the gift to his friend. But after he posted a screenshot of his trade history it became clear to me that he was well aware that he had obtained a 4-pack. Instead of notifying me about this and return the pack for a single gift or at least return the 3 extra gifts, he decides to let someone open the pack for him. And afterwards he sends the 3 other gifts to another account (his friend according to him) without asking anything in return. For all I know when I added him and told him about my mistake he still had the gifts and then sent them to one of his friends or to an alternate account.

    If this person from the start told me that it was my fault for not being careful or that he traded the gift without knowing it was a pack that would have been one thing. But in this case he first acted surprised that it was a pack and then lied about what happened to the pack. The fact that he lied at least a few times in our conversation makes it hard to believe anything he said. I pleaded a few times to just return the gifts and that I wouldn't report anything if he did. But he didn't feel it was his problem at all. I made a mistake by not being careful, but in this case it certainly feels like this person sent me a trade offer for the pack hoping for me to make a mistake and then take advantage of it. At the very least other people should be aware that this person cannot be trusted to trade with as he has shown himself a liar. I can live with this mistake, as it will make being scammed in the future less likely. But it's clear than no one can be perfect all the time and some people will try to take advantage of this even if they seem to be reasonable people at first.

    I really feel that the other party wasn't honest from the start, but if this is deemed entirely my mistake then I guess I have no choice but to just live with this.
  4. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    SteamRep Admin:
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    It happens too much that trade sites have some listed items and then other items or prices get traded. Unless we have a conversation involving the trade we cannot know what was agreed. And anybody might offer on anything with any they have via trade offers, so that can be non-related. I therefore cannot take such trade site offered deal on its own merits and apply that.
  5. ZenchiZennou

    ZenchiZennou r/steamgameswap moderator Friend Community

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    Steam:
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    I can prove to you that I traded PAYDAY 2 numerous times for 4 keys as do most traders these days. I can show from the conversation after I realized my mistake that he knew the agreement was to trade a single gift for 4 keys and not for an entire pack which is worth at least 15 keys. And from the screenshots of the chat it's clear he's lying about what he did with the pack. At first he says he traded the pack to his friend, but his own trade history shows that he trades 3 single gifts instead of the pack. Then when I confront him about the fact that the pack is shown as a single item in the trade history he says he opened the pack himself. But it's impossible to open the pack if you already own the game. So from what is shown in his trade history we know for a fact that he traded the pack to someone to open it, got 3 gifts back and then trades the 3 gifts to someone or an alternate account for nothing in return. And this while he's well aware that the deal was to trade 4 keys for a single gift.

    I uploaded some screenshots and I'll try to give more evidence if I can.

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  6. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    SteamRep Admin:
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    If you must, make a report on it in the report section. But this is a discussion section.

    Even with prior trades, prices change, or your position with another trader. The other trader might be related, or friends where you give discount or w/e. So that is not of interest to a case. And the value, sure, but that doesn't negate what I said.

    I traded friends of mine stuff for far less, or even nothing. It then revolves around the key thing: negotiation who buys/pays what for what.