Accepted Report: 76561198031258757 - ([TF2] Team Fortress 2 Items)

Well d0 has already been banned from Sweetstakes and is now banned on PPM.

I am sure if it were up to them, this report would have been accepted (my thoughts, nothing more)

This being said, it's more of an outside server deal, like PayPal trades / it falls under agreement, that d0 did not honor and cost me thousands of $$.

Idk why I got banned from Sweetstakes, Geel is confused about this situation and "temporary banned me until this resolve" - PPM is invalid and has already been pointed out.

I didn't agree to anything, @SR mods - Can I report Wayne for trying to trick me into giving him his unusuals back? He's litterally begging and threatening me with this report. Feel like this is more than just harassment.

Sorry Steam rep wont mark for hurt feelings.

You can report me all you like. I never tricked you and I never was begging nor threatening you.

I would have droped the report, personally if you would have returned the items, just like many other SR reports out there were the problem was solved between the 2 partys, even after a SR Report was made, I also made it clear that is others want to look into it, or SR wants to mark you even after you gave back the items you scammed, thats not something I can fix, nor will I try.

Like I said in chat, you can go on about what you think went down or try to use sly words in long storys all you wish, but so far you have not disproved any evidence I have provided. Personal opions are not really what I am looking for, and I assume not what SR is looking for. Granted I won't go as far as to remind you of the rules of spam, since you are the accused in all this, but so far you're just stretching another users argument to ridiculous proportions and then criticizing the results.

Go back to your blog to vent your opinions. We have no interest in them, and will deal bans for spamming crap here.

If you don't know what I count to be a opinion is, so lets put it this way:
- Everything that is NOT a question to pursue more evidence to the reported offense.
- Everything that are NOT facts RELATED DIRECTLY to the reported offense.
- Your "interpretation" of anything related/posted/said/shown here or elsewhere.

Stating "he didn't say so" is opinion, for that is supposed to be delivered in EVIDENCE as screenshots attached to the report.
Shut the crap, its USELESS.

Now, I've looked in my schedule, I can handle this report maybe by Tuesday if I'm lucky. I make no comments on the "luck" of the accused.

To those that opinionated above, hope I am not in a bad mood when I do this report. For those that do below, draw your conclusions, you've been warned.

Hidden Content:

**Hidden Content: Content of this hidden block can only be seen by members of (usergroups: Administrative, Moderating, SteamRep Development Team, SteamRep Friend Members, SteamRep Partner Members, SteamRep Partner SCAs).**

Dear: d0
^^ The reason you have 200+ adds is YOUR own doing, I wanted to keep this as non-public as possible, and prevent all the bias feedback by the 100's of users who pray by your will on backpack.tf but it looks like you're begging for any and all attention/help you can get by your many bible.tf followers.

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/4wzl4PC.png

*Pretty weak when you accuse me of the same thing*

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You're wrong (and its also your own option witch holds no water here)

Proof :
Blackmail refers to a situation that arises when a person threatens another person with some form of punishment if they do not offer some form of concessions. Blackmail is usually the result of one person somehow obtaining embarassing information about another and threatening to disclose it unless some form of payment (money or favors) is offered.

I offered to drop my report if he does the right thing, something I offered him as he was a friend.
*I also clearly pointed out, that if SR did not want to drop it, or anyone eles did not want to drop it, and he got marked for it, thats his problem he started this in the 1st place, and I am out thousands of dollars and have to spent my time with this.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Point A. Blackmail comment again (please READ above)

Point B. No agreement

Proof that were was a 100% agreement: http://i.imgur.com/CTsr0wU.png

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's not your job to see anything, this report has nothing to do with you, please read the rules and don't spam. But to prevent you from asking more questions or to prevent someone from posting with the same question I will respond.

* The scam took place when he did not honor his agreement to return the items I let him won, after a clear agreement was made*

Rhetorical question: If I was scammed in a Spycrab on a Unusual trade server, would the Unusual trade server programer or map maker have to deal with it? No. It was not a result of anything wrong with the site, it was a result of d0 refusing to pay forth what he owes.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Making the assumption that I told ANY admins / friends about this report to get them focus on YOU is false, and now you look like the fool dragging attention to this.



You posted this to gain attention for yourself in a positive light, but you're not, and now you resort to name calling and being mean to users, because they don't agree with what you say, in your safe zone, backpack.tf forums.

Should have actually READ:

Happy to see you feel the need to lie.



Please let me know how you're going to attempt to convince the handling admin/mods that you reply to a message FIVE minutes after.

" Wayne: I think I am starting to get this, wait for someone to place a higher value item, then hit them with a 400-500$ item (<---- This is a statement NOT a question)
*4 mins of busy betting, *good chance he did not even see my earlier message*
Wayne: SO we going to do this? back and forth s✿✿✿
d0: *Instantly* yeah but there's no big betters

If you're going to lie about what you're responding to, at least check the time stamps.

Also to reply to my own post made above (with all the proof / counter points to many of the spammers on this report)



"Then he try get as much attention as possible and spread false s✿✿✿ to make look bad"



Need I say more?

@The Wayne Train,

Throwing dirt is of no use. We do not normally ban either side

Should have actually READ:

Should have actually READ:

@SilentReaper(SR)

When / what did I throw?

This topic is one dirt-throwing contest. Stop that.

I can read perfectly fine, you however NOT:

And anyways, "yeah" can be taken into more then one meaning.

It's clear Wayne are bringing up all the other false accusasions regarding me. He posted in the gravity case and unrelated things to make me look weak once again.

No clear agreement, I started betting before him -- He asked for "teaming" and there was no clear agreement, if you read the "yeah but there's no big betters" read before what he said.
I've also bet more with & without his unusuals, so it doesn't make any sense if we would just bet eachother unusuals whenever we felt like it. Wayne was interested in betting TOGETHER on the SAME pot.. He never said that during the 20+ bets "we" did randomly during this betting period.. So there's no organized betting as we never did anything.

The reason why I made threads about it was because Wayne also mentioned it to a bunch of people (there even was a guy giving me -trust on the bp.tf page BEFORE him). So, this guy is full of lies & just bringing up unrelated trades/reports. I wanted to make sure the report on him is getting focused on as he's trying to retrieve his old unusuals, AkA scam attempt.

Also bunch of marked users here (Eriksson, Lategum, Yaranaika etc) defending him - Scammers stick together

@SilentReaper(SR) You can add me if you got any questions

Please let me know how you're going to attempt to convince the handling admin/mods that you reply to a message FIVE minutes after.

" Wayne: I think I am starting to get this, wait for someone to place a higher value item, then hit them with a 400-500$ item (<---- This is a statement NOT a question)
*4 mins of busy betting, *good chance he did not even see my earlier message*
Wayne: SO we going to do this? back and forth s✿✿✿
d0: *Instantly* yeah but there's no big betters

I will ask my question again:
"Please let me know how you're going to attempt to convince the handling admin/mods that you reply to a message FIVE minutes after."

He never said that during the 20+ bets "we" did randomly during this betting period.. So there's no organized betting as we never did anything.



You go big, I followed. You won, why do I care when I am getting my items back. (Right above is you requesting we place bids as a team)



I don't need another agreement to the deal, but it is clear you had the chance to bring up the fact that the deal was off, later in the chat, the fact that you never said "Thats not the plan" or anything along the lines of that meant the deal was still on.



He had hours to tell me, he chose to tell me after I wanted to quit (after a large win) take my profit and leave, turns out he had better plans.

Please explain why you chose not to tell me the deal was off? I had clearly reassured both of us of the current deal we had made.


Most bets I don't need to tell you I am going in, or vise versa, we went in ALL of them. Or at least 90% of them.

I see you bid, I bid. I reiterate, you go big, I follow. That was our whole game plan threw out the night, the exact amount we were betting, was pretty much the same all night. You have your Aces hats / 3rd gens mostly (few 1st gens) and my Mercs / Honcos and many other items I let you won along with countless buds.

I'm going to lock the topic to stop this bile-fighting. I'm still reading and contemplating on all this crap.

I've been analysing the case for hours, its way past midnight, I'll continue tomo.

First of all I will have to settle what is looked at for this case, and what NOT.

Multiple issues arise from this report.

Questions rise from this:
- Is teaming up in such a way against SteamRep's policy or whatever?
- Did, or didn't Wayne and d0 have a "gentleman's" agreement?
- And did d0 led Wayne to believe he agreed to this?
- Was d0 obliged to honor the agreement if there was one?

Those need to be answered, either by policy or the report. So lets begin to answer those questions:

Is teaming up in such a way against SteamRep's policies or whatever?
No, not in the basis. It's up to the site to balance or not the bets. If sweetstakes.tf finds that those crossed the intent of the site or the spirit of how it was set up, its up to the site to ban for it. But as it stands, its not a fraud offense in itself to team up that can be banned for by SteamRep.

I don't know what sweetstakes did to counter this, and I don't care much either, its their site and they have to manage it as they sees fit. Personally I find it unbalanced, but as each participant gets tickets to ratio of their bet versus the total, and supposedly the chances are applied fairly (spread the tickets to prevent grouping of them, taking true random type of seeds, etc).

I found it surprising that after reading the rules of the site that the site takes a cut 5% or less, but that then it wasn't taken from the bets of the large betters. I saw a bet where the bets where 49 items worth ~9,- dollar, and a 50th item was 1350,- dollar. Obviously the 50th item won the bet. I just expected that the site's cut would make the big better lose part of their inlay.
I understood it was at that time 3%:

1359,- / 100 * 3 = 40,77

Which would make the better LOSE part of his inlay. He could have easily put that rule to the literal value and ended this kind of trolling right in the butt. Other possibility is to set limits (upper/lower).

And by the way, there is NO optimum bet, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taleb_distribution

It basically means, in the long run the big betters will lose their items, no matter what. Just that the chance is small, doesn't mean that its profitable in the long run. As its not a unbalanced bet, its not a problem. Thnx to @daemon for consulting.

There is only 1 downside for this: those players where not aware that a big player would buy the large part of the tickets of that particular "bet". They didn't agree to simply have such small chances prior to their betting, they only found out AFTER they saw the bet END. This is a issue those will have to address with sweetstakes. And sweetstakes might change how bets are set up due those complaints or not, its all up to sweetstakes.tf owner. SteamRep won't interfere in this. For those small betters had a chance to win a very HUGE price vs a very small stake.

Possible solutions for this for sweetstakes is to differentiate in the various types of bets one can place:

• Bets that are unlimited (0-n)
• Bets that are limited in size settling minimum/maximum, where people are aware in what price group they are betting with a "even" stake in the bet (so they have more then 0.0x % chance to win a pot)
• The first better sets the limits on a pot, or selects a option of various rules.
• Examples can be bets where minimum is 0.1 $ value, with a max of 2 dollar, 2 dollar up to 10 dollar, 10 dollar up to 25, 25-50, 50-100, 100-250, etc.
• To prevent stuck bets, expiring after x time etc.
• With high stakes takeover, triple the chances of the marginal players, by taking 3 random draws, take first if none of the 3 went to the marginal players, and if 2nd or 3rd went to marginal player, it goes to that player.
• Etc etc.

There are a lot of possibilities to give their players options to play in bets they like. But its ultimately up to Sweetstakes. Above are just examples.
=====================================
For those other questions, I had to first read the entire chat.
[2 hours later :S]
I've read the chat several times now. Some observations:

• Wayne wants to team up.
• Wayne is inexperienced in betting, and and not letting the math lead 'm.
• The "Yeah but there's no big betters" comment is not in the first meaning (see below). The screenshot made it a bit out of context.
• d0 is NOT clear about to not agree with the teaming up. Not at start, and not further along.
• d0 DOES drop down a couple comments that Wayne is losing items to him along the way.
• Wayne is reminding to d0 in his responses throughout the conversation of the agreement.
• I had to think of what a admin would or should have done, or any that has any actual reputation and cared for it. Not to compare d0 with that, but to understand where he should have done what action.
• d0 didn't ask for his hat(s) when he apparently lost once to wayne. Probably for 2 reasons: If there was a agreement, they where still betting. Also, he had gained more than lost already.

Another thing, for any cooperation to work, the "team" members would have to take turns on pots. The other team member(s) would then have to fill off the pot with small stuff if needed so the pot would run. There is simply no reason to compete within a team on each pot if you look at it pragmatically. There would only be reason to do so if someone outside of the team would put up really large items, that it would require a team effort to gain "dominance" in the chance to win those items. With a unbalanced team, say a very rich trader and a medium rich trader, the very rich trader has no reason to team up, he can easily put in such high value items that he will win.

Did, or didn't Wayne and d0 have a "gentleman's" agreement?
No, not really, for it requires both parties to go in fully knowing. The "Yeah but there's no big betters" is too half-arsed of a reply. He really should have said more clearly to Wayne he didn't agree. This was the point for which I had to re-read the entire crappy conversation in like 15 screenshots several times. To prevent any doubts later on, I will explain this closer.

People say "yeah" on various times, not always meaning agreement. Example:
- I like that guy.
- Yeah, but he's an a✿✿✿✿✿✿.
The "yeah" is then a affirmative of what the first guy says. Meaning "understanding" their opinion.

I read it as such. But that's after contemplating on it for a period of time. In the short time span, I can see the mistake wayne made to see that as a agreement. This is a fault that d0 had to repair, but didn't (want to).

And did d0 led Wayne to believe he agreed to this?
The enthusiasm on the chance of winning made Wayne less critical on reading and comprehending the signals d0 gave, not reading on the finer details. d0 didn't care what wayne thought, d0 only wanted wayne to put in higher value items so he could put in even much bigger value items to do high stakes gambling. In that, he inadvertently did so.

Was d0 obliged to honor the agreement if there was (n)one?
Strangely, that is a very hard one to answer. Had already established there was no real agreement, for it requires both to agree. Both where in a rush to go high stake gambling, Wayne wanted some extra sureties by cooperating with d0 so he would not be scooped empty or been beaten by experience. d0 had no interest in such a deal, but was too much in a hurry to let wayne actually know.

Anybody who cares and has reputation, like a admin or a reputable trader that actually cared, would have had along the way told Wayne on various stages that they didn't agree in a clear unambiguous way. This was however a conflict of interest to d0, for he wanted to do high stakes gambling. Reading the mindset, it would not even come up to him to tell this to someone he sees as prey.

Coming to the culmination, when Wayne asked his hats back from d0, this should have warned d0 that he had mistaken to not answer clearly to Wayne. A reputable trader would have manned up and settled it. This leaves the even harder question to answer if it should be expected from d0 to pay up on this for his fault to not make it clear to wayne he wasn't in on the deal. It would have been better if d0 actually had payed back, yes, to show that he actually cares for his reputation, but its apparent he does not. In that, d0 compares to the same greedy kind most traders are, and is only caring for profit. This is clearly shown by d0 taunting on bp.tf that he "rekt" wayne. If wayne had done this with a more reputation sensitive trader, it would never have gone this far without letting wayne know they didn't agree. And that, made d0 owing wayne.

The rest is just dirt throwing and bullshitting etc.

Conclusion:
I have come to the conclusion that d0 owes wayne what was in the original "agreement", for wayne operated under the impression that he was having that agreement with d0. The lack of communicating back to wayne that he wasn't agreeing to the "teaming up" is the single reason for this. If d0 lost wayne's items that he won in subsequent gambles after that, it is also owed by him, for he didn't get the agreement from wayne to waste those items, as the agreement said to return those high value items.
I'm not currently aware where those items reside, if they are still at the bots of Sweetstakes or back in the backpack of d0. If these are still in sweetstakes bot's possession, sweetstakes can interfere and handle it.

As it is a case outside the normal fare here on SR, and the conclusions where not enough to mark directly for, I'm setting a grace period of 7 days within d0 has to repay what was owed. The report will be set open again to allow d0 and wayne report the status of repayment. The result of this report will then depend on that outcome. I won't be discussing the case or hear more arguments, for these are pretty pointless at this point. I've not decided yet on what will happen if no repayment is done, I'll decide upon that next wednesday.

If repayment is done, no matter how (by sweetstakes or d0), the report will be declined and archived.

Hidden Content:

**Hidden Content: Content of this hidden block can only be seen by members of (usergroups: Administrative).**

One word of warning for other people, this is NOT a discussion topic, as REPEATEDLY told on this topic. Any other posters then d0 and Wayne have no business here, and will get their access to the forums revoked for 6 months like some of the above posters already experienced (quoted in my replies). All nonsensical replies have been removed from view bringing the topic back from 4 to 2 pages.

Dad Tipped, AF Mohawk (+ something else?) was lost in the 1st bet.

It's clear I'm taunting and messing with people to go big so I can go even bigger, at least you get the points. I'm just joking around, people shouldn't take things so serious.
DaD tipped went back to Wayne in a bet I lost against him. AF Mohawk was lost (believe he also bet in that one but went to another guy) 3rd possible item (or something, idk I forgot) is also gone.

Nothing wrong here, so when will Wayne's case get reviewd so he can get marked for scam attempt?