1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Archived Report: 76561198073062050 - ([TF2] Team Fortress 2 Items)

Discussion in 'Archived Reports' started by AarChA, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. AarChA

    AarChA New User

    Messages:
    6
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:72120331
    Scam Report

    Report Type: [Other] Any other fraudulant behavior
    Virtual item type involved: [TF2] Team Fortress 2 Items

    Accused profile: 76561198073062050

    Victim profile: 76561198104506391

    What happened? Description:
    It all started with the his tf2outpost page. he was asking 90 keys on his circling peace sign brown bomber (I assume that it was his b/o). I offered 80 keys and later on added me, telling me that he accepted the 80. However, I ran out of pure and told him that I could complete that there. Instead, he told me that he will "hold the items" until so that I could collect the rest and complete the trade. Remember, he said "hold" and not "down pay", they are two different words, but I insist that will be his main argument once this case is taken up with you guys. I had only had a my Australium Scattergun, renamed "goldie" and 5 keys pure. I wanted to count it as 40 because of the parts, but we negotiated it to 31keys. He also showed me his credentials, and one of them in their said that "he traded an unusual rack with someone and GAVE IT BACK to him when he asked". He asked how long I could take, and I told his 3 days, but I may overextend. He said it was fine, so he accommodated "3-5" days of wait time, and then he made a "contract" stating ONLY "that I agree to give him the items and possibly complete the transaction by 3-5 days. Again, NEVER DID IT SAY that "I must complete this trade as a downpayment, or it will result to him keeping the items. IN THOSE SPECFIC words, because of course I would NOT agree to it and still NEVER did. I agreed to ONLY that contract he prescribed, because to my understanding it was a "hold" and not a downpay" and he needed to make assurance that he was "holding" the items and I am agree to let him hold so I can collect, nothing less and NOTHING MORE (I have evidence to prove it as well). So then the collecting starting, but about a day and a half into it I feared that I may not be able to complete the transaction, so I felt that it was best to maybe call it off so both of our times wouldn't be waisted. Remember, that this was a "hold" and not a downpayment. In a hold, each different parties don't have to stay inside the agreement (and my other hand was considered a collect as well). Then he declines and RESPONDS saying that "do I understand what a down payment is?", and of course I told him "yes I do understand", but this was never a down payment. I also told him that if the price drops I will not continue the trade at all and I will want my items back, and I did authorize him to retrieve my items should I not be able to FINISH the transaction. I have evidence for that as well, and even if I didn't say exactly what I said in the previous sentence, there was no where in the evidence that said that I acknowledge it as a down payment STILL. We argued on that more a little bit, but as stated, I said that "I may agree to continue" because I had some hope that I could complete it, but I still authorized for him to still retrieve my items. The 3-5 day mark was met, and I still didn't have the sufficient amount of pure to complete it , and me still not acknowledging it as a down payment (it is not a down payment, when BOTH parties did not confirm it to be one and if your contract never states it), and I still authorized for my items back there because the time was up and the only agreement made was for him to allow me to let him old the item. He disagreed and uses literately the whole conversation we had with a twist to justify his sentence, and now says that "he will give me two days and if he doesn't have the pure by then he will not be conducting any more trades with me" meaning that he will NOT give back. I have the evidence for everything he documented, and in there you will find that he claimed that he stated that he if I forfeight he keeps the items, even though in our initial agreement

    1. He NEVER states that I am not allowed to forfeigt, nor does he, again, acclaim this a "downpayment"

    2. If the price was to drop, he said that he will of course speak with the owners and have my items back. This was not part of the initial agreement, but he said this afraid of me figuring him out.

    3. The only thing that even comes close to a "down pay" was him just adding the DATE where the hold BEGAN. REMEMBER "time ~= down payment"

    I threatened to get steam rep and it brought us here.​

    Provide Evidence:

    Attached Files:

  2. Salmon

    Salmon Caution on SteamRep

    Messages:
    1,926
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:21003377
    Can you provide a summary of what the scam was?
  3. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    Oh nice.

    Let's handle this, it's really sad you chose not to take up my offer of allowing you to complete your payment - http://imgur.com/Zmi2mMs

    The option is no longer available - the deal is entirely OFF.

    Admins, Mods ill be writing a response when i have some time, we made an agreement that he would complete a payment within 5 days, i allowed him 12 days but yet instead of trying to work something out with me he spoke to me with a huge amount of rudeness and was adamant that he would have his items back as he no longer wanted the deal (which is against the point of a down payment)
  4. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    Original Conversation - http://imgur.com/74em4xf,GoBOZnX,M9tpKuc and http://imgur.com/Q5xeVHX

    Here is you when you originally said the deals of for you (you sent me offline messages) - http://i.imgur.com/YNtuwp7.png

    Your comments on my profile (and the second one is a comment i made on your profile, but you keep deleting everything i post on your profile!) - http://imgur.com/8ZpMzHN,8ZSYRkm

    Here is me sending a message to you to conclude everything (gave you 2 extra days (would make it a 7 day extension))- http://i.imgur.com/EG1yu9g.png

    This is the text i sent to you -

    Hi AarChA, i don't have time for this so lets get this over with immediately. I contacted you on the 18th of June (AEST) after you commented on my trade offering 80 Keys for my peace bomber (http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/26038701#latest) After I added you, you said you had spent your pure, however you were able to gather pure again to buy my unusual. I then gave you the option of the downpayment, which you wanted and thus we continued with the deal. We concluded that the downpayment would be Aussie Scatter (valued at 31 Keys) + 5 Keys = total of 36 Keys Downpayment. You said it would take 3 days "latest" but you are usually much faster, you also asked what if you took longer, i said this was fine and thus said i wouldnt mind a couple extra days (leading to the agreement that you would conclude your payment for the brown bomber within 3-5 days (21-23 June AEST) At first I sent you a trade offer for this downpayment after i concluded a account check, you said you had a fear of gifted items and thus sent me a counter offer, which i accepted. On June 19th you commented with a paragraph but what caught my eye is " no one is forced to stand in a trade they are not ready for." and "Yes I understand downpayment. " Well, evidently you do not, a downpayment is a deposit made by a buyer to underline his or her commitment to complete the deal and is to protect the seller from you backing out of a deal, (thus if the buyer backs out after x time, the downpayment is FORFEIT and is the sellers now) On June 20th, i messaged you saying "its clear for me that the downpayment is gone and seller keeps it if you change your mind, so its probably better to buy it, and next time make better decisions before you make a downpayment" you then replied with a paragraph but this is the most important bit, "I can still go with it, though keeping to my words" and "I wasn't having "buyers remorse", I was trying to clear up what I thought may become a "waste of time"" later that morning you told me someone is offering 36 keys for the aussie scattergun and thus you would like it back, i didnt bother with the response as i was busy. Then 7 days later, you comment on my profile again with "Nvm that, the deal is off. The dead line is already up, and I don't have pure for you. I expect my scattergun and 5 keys back or you know what may go down. " and i replied on your profile with, "No, I do not. I've explained to you in great lengths the purpose of a down payment. You then assured me you weren't backing up. Please do enlighten me " To me, this deal should have been completed 5 days ago and the deal was off 5 days ago, however I will give you 2 days (AEST time, 30/06/2015) to complete your payment or else i will not be conducting any trades with you. I have all of the above, all chats, all comments as photographic evidence.

    Best Regards.


    "1. He NEVER states that I am not allowed to forfeigt, nor does he, again, acclaim this a "downpayment"

    2. If the price was to drop, he said that he will of course speak with the owners and have my items back. This was not part of the initial agreement, but he said this afraid of me figuring him out.

    3. The only thing that even comes close to a "down pay" was him just adding the DATE where the hold BEGAN. REMEMBER "time ~= down payment"


    1. It's a downpayment, the proof is in the imgur links above.

    2. What? you do understand backpack.tf is a GUIDELINE it is in no means a PRICE, besides, i do not care if the price would drop during the phase of our deal, if it went up i wouldnt change my mind to you paying more and thus conversely if it goes down, its the same.

    - where was i afraid of you figuring me out?
    - where did i say i will speak with owners (WTF WHICH OWNERS)
    - why would i give your items back. once again ITS A DOWNPAYMENT

    This is the trade you offered on btw - http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/26038701#latest ive had it for 2, nearly 3 months i believe.

    3. once again, its a downpayment, whats the point of holding someones items as a safety net if you can demand it back at anytime, anyways?


    Before this report, i was still happy to give you your items (though when you were messaging me in between 2 and 4AM constantly saying it was NOT a downpayment and i HAD to give your items back)

    I woke up and gave you the option of continuing with our deal but its unfortunate you think your report will go through -- either way. I am no longer giving you the chance of upholding the deal.

    If any admins can please review this

    Cheers, harsh

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2015
  5. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
  6. Salmon

    Salmon Caution on SteamRep

    Messages:
    1,926
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:21003377
    I wonder if @AarChA is going to respond or not.
  7. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
  8. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,858
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    Having waded through this mess of a report, as I understand the situation, @AarChA made a "down payment" to @[GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 towards an expensive items, and the deal then fell through. I realize some time has passed since you reported this thread last fall, but it required some time and discussion between administrators to decide how we will proceed, due to some grey area and lack of precedent. A "down payment" is unusual in the Steam trading community, and I'm not aware of any precedent or legitimate situation where down payments were legitimately made and deemed enforceable.

    Unless you have proof of specific terms and conditions, spelling out forfeiture of items in X, Y, or Z situation, you have no grounds to keep the items. The vague blanket definition of "down payment" is not sufficient. Either follow through with the originally agreed upon trade, or return the reporter's items. In an automobile down payment, the terms under which a buyer's down payment are forfeited are subject to concrete, black and white terms spelled out in the contract, and then varying types and degrees of regulation. I do not see any specific conditions of forfeiture or termination in the provided chat screenshots (terms spelled out after the trade was made are irrelevant). Given the lack of specific terms, and the rarity of "down payments" being used for Steam items, I can only conclude the reporter reasonably did not understand the forfeiture terms you had in mind, did not knowingly or willingly agree to give up their items should either side fail to follow through, and provided a partial payment as a good faith gesture (s)he was serious about purchasing this item, in order for you to hold it. Seeing you yourself declared the "deal is off" in this report, it's clear you no longer have intention of following through, but you still intend to keep their items while giving nothing in return. Therefore, I will give you the following options:
    1. Return the reporter's "down payment" items. If you do not have their items, work with the reporter to establish a repayment of equivalent value.
    2. Complete the originally agreed upon trade. No added terms and conditions.
    Due to the ambiguity of this case, where it's reasonable to expect either side to not fully understand who is at fault, I am making the following proposal: If you complete any of these options within the next week, then this report will be closed with no further consequences. If you are unable to make contact with the reporter, provide documentation of your attempt(s) or I will assume you made no effort. If you fail to follow up within a week, I will be forced to issue a verdict. My decision is not yet final, but you may not like what I decide.
    That is for the reporter to decide, not you.
    Hidden Content:
    **Hidden Content: Content of this hidden block can only be seen by members of (usergroups: Administrative, Moderating).**
  9. AarChA

    AarChA New User

    Messages:
    6
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:72120331
    "that he would complete a payment within 5 days, i allowed him 12 days but yet instead of trying to work something out with me he spoke to me with a huge amount of rudeness and was adamant that he would have his items back as he no longer wanted the deal (which is against the point of a down payment)"

    Yep, he did laminate to me that I was "rude to him" and my "punishment" was that I was not getting my scattergun back. If I were "nicer" I would of "gotten" it. Unless you are a blokal, or you have never done real business deals, you can't simple steal someone's items (legally, I add) because they are "rude" to you. I mention again he doesn't state it's a downpayment. When making an oath, your words are literal. It's like the law, if it isn't in there, you bet there will be context's that were taken out of proportion. If I had seen THAT (which my evidence provides), I would of thought otherwise. I simply wanted my item back, and I thought he was going to take me on some mental gymnastics (which he has already). Yes, I should of been more nicer about it, as I even was honest and apologized as he will not show that, but that isn't significant nor does it constitute for anything. That is all I will say, assuming you admins yourself would not care about my humble appeal. I simply want my justice. Nothing he is saying is knew to me.
  10. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    Hi

    Aarcha, please send me a trade offer for the items.

    Apologies for the delay, I haven't logged on in ages and just wanted to cash out and saw this.
  11. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    Or if you can wait, I can try sending one ASAP
  12. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    Hi

    Synhimati (76561198104506391)

    I added you. - Unfortunately I can't trade for 7 days - http://imgur.com/emVVaiy

    I do not have the items you gave for downpayment/whatever we are caling it "to hold"

    I can give you this item:
    Holy Grail Taunt: Spent Well Spirits [http://backpack.tf/item/2734401934]

    Worth "44 Keys" according to backpack.tf; if that suits you.

    Thanks
    otherwise just add me and yea
  13. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    If you dont want that,

    A bit after a week I can just pay you back 36 pure keys, which as you say we both agreed was the final values of the item you gave me.

    See you then.
  14. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    Hi

    I plan to sell most of my BP for keys in some days, so then I will only be able to pay you the oriignally discussed value. And as I will likely cash out I am hoping you can accept my friends request so that I can cash out ASAP as I need the cash. (Once I can trade again)
  15. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    I sold my backpack for keys, I will have 36 keys in my backpack available nonetheless.

    I have added you repeatedly and made comments on your profile and have seen you online on multiple occasions, im not exactly sure what to do, @7656119805264061 please advice.

    Harshil
  16. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,858
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    Have you tried sending a private message through the forums?
  17. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    just sent one. Hopefully he/she will reply.
  18. AarChA

    AarChA New User

    Messages:
    6
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:72120331
    Well I thought the case was still against me, but I assume you wanted to negotiate? (that is what I could read from the little I have read recently). I have finally accepted your friend request.
  19. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,858
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    Be sure to provide an update when this is resolved.
  20. [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5

    [GTT][OP] harshilbisMau5 New User

    Messages:
    34
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:56398161
    Sending a trade offer for 36 keys now.