Declined scrap.tf

Discussion in 'Archived Applications' started by Geel9, Jan 2, 2013.

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  1. Geel9

    Geel9 New Member

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    I am expected to either fix issues on Steam's side or stop using Steam?
  2. -GoV- VenGanZa TF2-T [A]

    -GoV- VenGanZa TF2-T [A] Partner Community

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    Please do not selectively quote, if you read that in context, later I state that I do hope changes to refund policy may go toward easing peoples minds, and hopefully along the way coding changes might remove any issues totally :)
  3. Àñtï-Prøtëšt [SA / MM]

    Àñtï-Prøtëšt [SA / MM] Friend Community

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    wouldnt it be wise to utilize the S.R plugin to prevent tagged users from trading off "possible" stolen items ??
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  4. Geel9

    Geel9 New Member

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    We do use the SteamRep database on the website to ban marked scammers. It is neither a plugin nor a game server, though. And at the time of writing we did not use it.
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  5. -GoV- VenGanZa TF2-T [A]

    -GoV- VenGanZa TF2-T [A] Partner Community

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    Awesome!
  6. Ace♡

    Ace♡ Partner Community

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    So, I have a bit of an issue regarding the recent ban/tagging that scrap.tf did. [ http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tf2scrap#announcements/detail/1605809472987762720 ]

    Geel had an issue regarding buds prices I believe, which was their responsibility; despite their mistake they still went and tried to threaten people to return what was mistakenly taken due to the scrap.tf admin's error.
    [Being able to sell buds for 23 keys, then buy them again for 21 keys.]
    While yes, it would be a good idea to report this error, sometimes simply exploiting it is good enough. Scrap.tf has had a history of bad coding errors and problems that were entirely the faulty coding and admin's responsibility; often reacting violently instead of just fixing the issue and moving on. Nothing was stolen here. The site worked not as intended, but that is not this user's fault, it is Geel's.


    Code:
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  Name, you will give the keys you stole back or I will give HelenAngel your steamid
    (Voice) [ScrapTF] Geel9: MEDIC!
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  Your call.
    Iam the boss here :  es
    Iam the boss here :  yes
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  Hey b✿✿✿✿
    Player Mr. Prime has joined the game
    Name :  who ? wat
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  You will give the keys back
    Iam the boss here :  not you
    Iam the boss here :  haha
    Name :  ah.. eh
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  Or I will give HelenAngel your steamid
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  Your call
    Player FyA|R3tro has joined the game
    Name :  helen ?
    Name :  wtf is that
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  She works for SteamRep
    Player Mr. Prime joined team RED
    Name :  and what she want
    Name :  you made this bug
    Name :  not me
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  Because if I give her your steamid you'll be marked on SteamRep
    Booker DeWitt :  I dont understand how can he steel from bot..
    (Voice) [ScrapTF] Geel9: MEDIC!
    JBouks has traded for: RoboCrate
    Mr.Thinker has traded for: The Spy-cicle
    THOK_ has found: The Phlogistinator
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  I'm going to assume you're not giving the keys back
    (Voice) [ScrapTF] Geel9: MEDIC!
    Iam the boss here :  i want it so much
    Iam the boss here :  haha
    Player Ruthless - BoSs TeDeX ® has joined the game
    Mr.Thinker :  what
    [ScrapTF] Geel9 :  Enjoy your permanent scrap.tf ban and steamrep tags
    Player [ScrapTF] Geel9 left the game (Disconnect by user.)
    Was a chat pasted to me by the user in question. [He has screenshots as well I believe if that's needed]. He just hops in the server throwing threats around.
    Intent or no, you cannot punish someone with a tag for your own mistake. I don't care if they ban them on scrap.tf, that's their site, but the caution tag is unwarranted.
    It's not like they were running scripts or purposefully cracking into the website to force an exploit regarding the bad code. It was buds being priced wrong because of an administration error and then Geel trying to call it stealing when someone finds it. If it was on purpose, that's entrapment. If it's not, it's error. Blaming them for your error instead of taking the responsibility for f✿✿✿✿✿✿ up is bad form.

    edit: the site currently being attacked(or not, I don't know, site's always messed up one way or another and it could be coincidence) isn't a part of this complaint and isn't done by the user I'm representing.
  7. Mattie!

    Mattie! SteamRep Admin

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    Yes, this case is definitely scrap.tf's mistake-- and the way geel9 handled it in that chat saddens me greatly and reflects poorly on their professionalism.

    Note though that Scrap.tf did not tag them (they are not affiliated with SR), but they did report the worst abusers to us. Those abusers, who cycled multiple times to profit free keys from scrap.tf bots are tagged with SR CAUTIONs. They are welcome to appeal their tags.

    Traders who intentionally abuse clear exploits, whether it be duping or other ways to take advantage of bugs for profit, are not considered trustworthy traders. If they find a good price, that's great, but abusing a bug for profit is not acceptable. Given how much we rely on Valve's code, tradebots, raffles, websites, etc-- there is a serious ethical concern for the community when traders go out of their way to abuse them to make a profit.
  8. Geel9

    Geel9 New Member

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    I'd like to point out, however, that the way we conduct our own community is (as Mattie has pointed out to me before) entirely up to us.

    I asked Helen if what they were doing was against SteamRep's policies and after she said yes I provided the evidence of those who abused the glitch.

    Those who gave the items back had their bans/tags removed.

    Finally, I'd like to leave with this: leaving one's door unlocked doesn't give anyone the right to break in and steal their TV.

    Edit: never did I deny that it was our mistake. However, that does not justify somebody else's abuse of said mistake.
  9. Ace♡

    Ace♡ Partner Community

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    That is not a valid metaphor for what is going on here. It's more like you sold someone something, then they returned it and you gave them more money, realized after the fact and then called it stealing.
  10. Geel9

    Geel9 New Member

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    Recognizing an exploit in a system and abusing it multiple times is completely wrong.

    If somebody accidentally abused this exploit, they were not punished.

    What would be stealing in your analogy is recognizing that X store accidentally gives bigger refunds than it should, and buying and returning items multiple times.
  11. Zerfenus

    Zerfenus New Member

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    This isn't stealing.
    You put up the wrong prices and people realised this. Instead of fixing the prices and taking the losses as a lesson for the future, you decided to throw a fit and demand that the people who
    took advantage of your mistake to give back what they got from your mistake.
  12. Maddux

    Maddux Member

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    I believe it was a year or so ago Sony (makers of the PlayStation 3) did something similar to what happened here. They listed on their online website that their play station 3 console was only $60, when they really meant that the play station 3 controller was $60. It was a simple error of some employee putting in the wrong product ID. Sony then sold everybody (i believe it was less than 10 people) who purchased this "PlayStation" for $60 the actual console. Even though it was an error on their end, they still did the correct thing by abiding to what was written. A simple tag on this website will ruin most of your trading career, and threatening users that used this glitch with such harsh punishment is ridiculous.

    Incidents like this can also be a learning experience. Tensions get high when things go amiss, but always remember to keep a cool head in situations. If what you said is true about how things like this warrent a scammer tag, then the site index should be updated to reflect these changes. I know i would be mortified if a system i made was exploited in such a serious way, but throwing around such serious threats is quite irresponsible. I bet if you would have calmly talked to somebody who used this glitch, instead of throwing around vulgar language, and explained the situation and what happened, i bet some of them would have returned the item.
    Backseatsman likes this.
  13. Regen

    Regen Partner Community

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    I agree with Maddux, this was your fault alone, and you need to take responsibility.

    Also the way you reacted to this situation just brings your application down.
    From what I understand, you basically server jumped around to publicly yell at other people because you f✿✿✿ed up.
    unlucky ducky and SudasGalva like this.
  14. AcesGamer

    AcesGamer Well-Known Member

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    Same with any store ever. When a pricing mistake is made, it is usually honored for the customer instead of publicly shaming said person.
    People who "abuse" pricing mistakes in a real life situation aren't treated like garbage like you're doing. (See any reputable company ever)

    What a f✿✿✿✿✿✿ comedy routine, I would be ashamed.
  15. Ace♡

    Ace♡ Partner Community

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    I couldn't write a more comprehensive post since I had to scoot and had a pretty great game of Diplomacy over at a bro's house, but seems like the other people here got my point across fairly well.

    Regen: The person I talked to said he tried to add him first, but the person was busy and didn't accept right away, so he jumped in the server he was idling on to do that.

    Had they been somehow breaking into your system and changing prices or something equivalent, I'd fully support your decisions.
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  16. TommY

    TommY SteamRep Moderator Partner Community

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    Nobody cares you issuing bans on your own site, but

    Once you say
    "Enjoy your permanent scrap.tf ban and steamrep tags"

    it's not about how you conduct your own community.

    It already involves SteamRep which of course is not yours.

    Good luck on your application because i'm pretty sure this application has met every condition in all ways of getting rejected.
    rannmann likes this.
  17. Ace♡

    Ace♡ Partner Community

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    Regarding that quote, in my original post,

    I don't think he actually read it.
    Roudydogg1 and Zerfenus like this.
  18. Fiskie

    Fiskie Partner Community

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    Come on Geel, even Warehouse knows they f✿✿✿ed up during multi-thousand dollar losses because of the introduction of uncraftable scarves, the mispricing of Genuine items and many other similar incidents

    You should be taking the same stance, there is no bug in setting prices you did not change correctly

    In fact you should not be doing it the way you're doing right now at all, just set an average and range value for earbuds instead of min and max and you won't f✿✿✿ up like this in the future
    Zerfenus likes this.
  19. Reag~ ❤

    Reag~ ❤ Partner Community

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    Jesus christ what are you even doing Geel. I knew you had a screw loose but god damn, you don't attack your userbase over your own messup and then make threats against them when you have absolutely no power or right to state said threats.
    Getting someone tagged just because they saw a flaw in how you're handling items and profit off it isn't scamming and clearly isn't enough to earn a tag, if they go into the bots backpacks and stole everything then sure that would be worth passing it on to get them tagged but this was done by human error on your side, the users just used your site like normal. Heck half of them likely didn't even know that it wasn't intentional which makes your outbursts at them even more disgraceful.

    I honestly hope this get rejected now, you've shown how incompetent you are to everyone now at damage control, you pretty much throw it out the window then jump into the nearest tank to killdozer through the users house because they stole your children.
    Your choice of language absolutely stinks when you went to encounter that one user, you acted like a typical bully who wasn't getting his own way. How the hell Jesse puts up with you I do not know. There are reasons I've been ignoring most of the shenanigans you send me over steam. First the massive amounts of requests for free advertising which I gave into, something which I shouldn't have thus getting backlash from my own staff, you then proceeded to lash back at me because of that so I ignored you for weeks on end. Then when we eventually did unban you, you started all over again causing a repeat of that, in the end it resulted in me shouting at you to stop it which thankfully you actually did listen that time but what I've seen here just makes me want to move myself and everyone else who is near/close to you because you clearly don't understand how to handle things without blowing up in peoples faces.

    @SR: I don't mean this post to be a lash at scrap.tf and its community in anyway, its more my view on Geel's actions that I've seen over time, his lashing at his own community just put the nail in the coffin for my view.
  20. Zemnmez

    Zemnmez Partner Community

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    The users deserved a warning, which they received. It could also be said they deserved a ban on scrap.tf, providing the exploit was abused purely for profit; that's scrap.tf's prerogative. However website as large as scrap.tf should not be responding to crises born of their own mistakes by harassing users, or skirting around the truth by users were involved in "abuse of an exploit".
    But, I don't find this event a big issue provided scrap.tf takes measures to:
    • Explain to their users honestly what went wrong and,
    • What they will do about it.
    If these things aren't done scrap.tf is showing -at least in my eyes- that it does not currently have the professionalism and good management that would be expected to pass this application.
    Roudydogg1 and Zerfenus like this.
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