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Is there a difference between and good trade and scam?

Discussion in 'Discussion Archive' started by FallenSparrow, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. FallenSparrow

    FallenSparrow New User

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    Hello guys,

    I have done a fair bit of trading in tf2 but what is the boundary between a scam and a good trade? Been interested to know for a while. In my personal opinion if both persons get what they wanted without being forced its ok, but what do you guys think?

    Cheers :D
  2. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Your view, in general terms is sound, provided both parties understand relative worth of items traded. A scam involves actively seeking to gain advantage by deception or otherwise untoward means, and since I presume every kid has halfway decent parents, the right or wrong of a trade should be manifest at trade time.

    When I trade, I keep things simple. I treat my trades as if they were public, in other words I will not do a trade I would be ashamed to have others scrutinize. I never have to rationalize a trade, my ethical beacon is always humming and I sleep well at night for that reason :)
    Melkor likes this.
  3. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    Scam: not holding to a trade agreement between 2 traders (1 not paying up, or not completely as agreed)
    Shark: intentionally lowballing toward new people to gain a advantage over them (offering a weapon/normal hat for a unusual to a account that has low hours and/or is pretty recent)

    Sharks are reported to some comm's who handle them, SR didn't find a agreeable ruleset to abide by for those to mark and is only doing some if extreme.

    as venganza said, your stance is sound.
  4. tomato

    tomato New User

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    It's simple. All scams involve deliberate misrepresentation/dishonesty.

    A good deal is still honest.
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  5. Melkor

    Melkor New User

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    Unless it's a that "good deal", but yeah...
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  6. Ninja Otter With A Taco

    Ninja Otter With A Taco Retired Staff

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    A good trade is when both sides of the deal are happy with what they have. Even if one side is ignorant of the price. This would only count though if you did not lie about either items price. So saying your 5 weapons are the same price as their bills would be in my mind scamming. Whereas if you make sure they are happy with the trade and do not lie about the prices (or they don't even bother to ask) then that's perfectly fine.
  7. gukingofheart

    gukingofheart New User

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    Both sides don't have to be happy when the trade is over and done with. There are times where a trader wanted a certain amount for their item, can't get that amount, ends up getting an offer less then what he wanted, and takes that offer. Not happy in the end, but that trader was not scammed either.

    When both sides agree to the trade(even if the original agreement was changed) then both sides must stick to that agreement. If not, then I suggest you undo the trade(if possible) or pay up.
    VenGanZa likes this.
  8. gukingofheart

    gukingofheart New User

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    BTw, there are more expensive weapons. So 5 Festive Medi Gun would be worth more then a bill's hat.
    Also, as far as I know..everyone calls this sharking, not scamming unfortunately.
  9. Xel'Naga

    Xel'Naga New User

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    I define a scam as being purposefully deceiving in order to get items from somebody. I don't consider "sharking" to be the same as a scam (though it's ethically questionable, the fact of the matter is that everybody does it from time to time and the reality of it is that it's not that big of a deal). However, promising somebody to send money in return for items, or renaming an item or lying about the state of an item of any form is where I'd draw the line.

    Lying about the value, however, it just sharking, in my eyes. The value is up to the two parties involved in any trade to decide and agree upon. Spreadsheets and trade forums don't determine the true "value" of any item. If both parties agree that it's a fair trade, then it's a fair trade.
  10. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    A "scam" is a somewhat generic term, and requires further qualification and specificity, even in a court of law this is so.

    SR is well aware of this, and publicly defines what it considers a "scam" for tagging purposes.

    As for "sharking" it could be more properly called a "sharking scam", since it is most certainly a scam by an definition of the word, however for SR purposes, and by virtue of the special place of infamy it holds in the TF2 world, we all refer to it by name and treat it somewhat differently (and far too infrequently:)

    * gukingofheart loved your first post in this thread btw.