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Archived Appeal Review for https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198184969633 (Xol de Zori)

Discussion in 'Archived Appeals' started by BilboSwaggins 2, Feb 1, 2022.

  1. BilboSwaggins 2

    BilboSwaggins 2 Banned on SteamRep

    Messages:
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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:112351952
    Appeal Review Request
    Reminder: Appeal reviews are not appeals!

    Reason for Appeal Review: New evidence not produced in your original appeal
    Past Appeal: https://forums.steamrep.com/threads/appeal-76561198184969633-paladiin-banned-by-sr.189164/

    Steam profile: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198184969633 (Xol de Zori)

    Make your case:
    My original appeal was denied because I failed to link the other account I attempted to use in the scam (At the time I couldn't find it). I had also not managed to contact the victim of my attempted scamming. However since then I have located the other account that I used and also reached out to my victim and we have had several conversations in which he fully forgave me and believed I truly have changed my heart. I also offered him compensation for me attempting to scam him (which he declined). I then attempted to submit another appeal (https://forums.steamrep.com/threads/appeal-76561198184969633-xol-de-zori-banned-by-sr.197590/) however I was unaware that only one appeal was allowed per person so I must apologise for listing it and wasting your time in that case. I also believe that there was a misunderstanding about the complexity and premeditated nature of my scam which I attempted to describe in my second appeal. The new evidence (which I have attached to this review) I believe is enough to prove that I am remorseful and have changed my heart and thus I would like to be able to submit an additional appeal. I appreciate that you guys are busy and I thank you for your time. All the best.​

    Attached Files:

  2. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

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    5,858
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    "New evidence not produced in your appeal" means something like a new development which was simply not possible to produce (or not applicable) at the time you first appealed, through no fault of your own. Appeal reviews are not a way of re-addressing your case because you don't like the outcome the first time around, so attempting to argue your case (especially why you "really" had a change of heart this time) is grounds to disqualify you.

    An example of "new evidence" would be if (a) you claimed you were innocent of all offenses throughout your first appeal and that the screenshots used against you were fake, (b) the admin disagreed and rejected your appeal, (c) and then the person who reported you was later banned for faking reports with doctored evidence. In this type of situation, when your appeal was already denied, you could then submit this new evidence (proof the person is doctoring evidence) in support of your original claim to innocence, maintaining your original story, and an appeal review would be granted.

    Something that you, yourself, failed to disclose in your appeal, is not considered "new" evidence. It is your responsibility to understand our publicly linked appeal procedures, including 1 appeal per person, and as said policy makes clear, it's your responsibility to tell the truth and not omit any details.
    That's on you, not us.

    We provide tips on doing this. It was your responsibility, and unless you documented significant attempts to reach out to your victim and repay, we can't differentiate between someone who didn't put in enough effort because they really couldn't reach their victim despite their best efforts, or simply dragged their feet and looked for excuses because repaying costs them money and they didn't feel responsible. If you "forget", then we have to assume the later.

    Having a change of heart "for realzies this time" does not qualify as "new evidence".

    When we speak about "complexity" and "premeditated" nature, we're referring to the fact that you demonstrably approached your victim, absolutely intent on stealing from them. You planned, or premeditated it from the beginning. It doesn't matter whether you were good at planning or ultimately successful, the key factor is intent. We consider a premeditated scam as something more serious than something done once, on impulse, and then regretted (like short-changing someone who mis-counted their keys in a trade window and then not giving them a chance to correct it). The fact that you prepared a second account in preparation for scam demonstrates that intent, regardless of whether or not it was convincing or effective.

    Now, before I make a final decision, is there any other "new evidence" for your case?
  3. BilboSwaggins 2

    BilboSwaggins 2 Banned on SteamRep

    Messages:
    5
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:112351952
    This evidence wasn't possible to produce at the time of my original appeal. My victim was taking an extended break from Steam when I first tried to contact him. I spent over a year trying to reach out before coming to the conclusion that he simply was never online any more. And it stayed that way until a few months ago when he added me back. I've talked to him quite a bit since and he told me he wasn't on steam for about two years because he was trying to focus on other things in his life (I don't have a screenshot of this but I can ask him again about it). So from my perspective when I tried to contact him he had come off steam indefinitely so I decided to proceed with my appeal regardless. I did read your tips on reaching out but they proved ineffective in this case. Furthermore I believe you misunderstand the intent of some of the things I said. I am not trying to argue in the appeal why I had a change of heart "for realzies" as you condescendingly put it, but to demonstrate to you why the new evidence in significant. Also I am aware the final point about the "complexity" and "premeditated" nature of the scam isn't the main focus but I just thought it was worth discussing. I didn't "prepare a second account", I just used an existing smurf (that was pitifully still friends with me, and using it's original name making it painfully obvious it was not an OPSkins bot). I would also argue that it was "done once, on impulse, and then regretted. I mention in my original appeal that I had just been scammed (screenshots included), well the first thing I did after being scammed was to go onto CSGO Lounge and then attempt to scam the first person I found. I was rather distraught at losing my knife and at the time I wanted nothing more than to get one back. As you can see through the screenshots in my original appeal I break down almost immediately and my heart isn't really in it. To call what I attempted to do "complex and premeditated" is to stretch the words definitions to their very breaking point. However, as I said earlier this is not the main point of the review I just thought it was worth mentioning because I do still genuinely believe there was a misunderstanding. I know you get a lot of appeals, I don't minding waiting one or two years for mine to be looked at. All I want is one more chance, I know you probably hear that a lot but in this case I do think the new evidence at least affords me that. I appreciate you replying quickly to my review, good day.

    Attached Files:

  4. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,858
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    Repayment is a firm requirement for your appeal to be considered, but does not guarantee a favorable outcome. If you fail to repay before appealing, and don't document significant effort to reach out to your victim before appealing (e.g. have a really good explanation why you haven't repaid), then your appeal will be rejected. You should still repay, because it's the right thing to do, but any further interaction with your victim after the appeal has been decided, repayment or not, is no longer relevant to your case.
    And I'm trying to explain why that is not considered new evidence. We had a policy and criteria for our decisions, with very little room for admin discretion, and you met the auto-deny criteria. Unless you can prove that was wrong, you have no grounds for a re-appeal.
    It does not matter whether the account was specifically created for this purpose, or if you already had it. What matters is the effort you put in, and that you approached your victim with intent of scamming from the beginning. Notice I said "prepared" and not "created"; you impersonated an opskins bot from another of your accounts, and that extra bit of effort and preparation before approaching your victim makes this premeditated.
    That's just your motive. It doesn't justify your actions, nor does it make what you did on "impulse" like you said. The fact that you prepared to scam (whether effectively or not) by using a second account is what determines if we consider this premeditated, not the circumstances that motivated you to carry out your scam. It doesn't justify your actions, it just paints you as a vindictive and petty person, who will take their toxic grudge out on innocent people when wronged.
    This is one of several criteria by which we automatically reject appeals, so we use this specific wording for it. Whether you consider it sufficiently "complex" doesn't matter, the point is what you did was complex enough to require preparation of some sort in advance, and within our guidelines that qualifies as premeditated.

    However, as I said earlier this is not the main point of the review I just thought it was worth mentioning because I do still genuinely believe there was a misunderstanding. I know you get a lot of appeals, I don't minding waiting one or two years for mine to be looked at.
    And this, right here, is the crux of the issue: Appeal reviews are not second chances. Once your appeal is rejected, you can never appeal again, ever. Making a special exception for you would be unfair to everyone else we refused. Using the appeal review form to sob and plead for another chance is wasting both your time and ours. No matter how much you plead or beg, admins are simply not allowed to grant any exceptions to this one-appeal-per-person-per-lifetime policy unless you meet the criteria for an appeal review. It doesn't matter how I personally feel about your case; even if I wanted to grant you a second chance, I would've had to make that accommodation in your original appeal, and that ship has already set sail. The most I can do now is give you the time of day to explain what appeal reviews are for, as explained in all the warnings you dismissed when filling out this form.

    Change of heart appeals are ultimately up to admin discretion, and hence inevitably a little arbitrary but we have a handful of auto-deny criteria that admins are required to address before making their decision to remove as much personal bias from the decision making as possible. You met several of those auto-deny criteria, and the admin was then duty-bound to reject regardless of how he personally felt, so I can't imagine any actual "new evidence" that would qualify in this or other change of heart cases. Using the appeal review form to request a second chance at demonstrating your change of heart, just as you're doing right now, ultimately just wastes your time as well as mine. I can't think of a single change of heart appeal review we've ever granted, as that's simply not what appeal reviews are for. They're a stopgap measure in case our procedures were not followed by a rogue admin, or if certain extenuating circumstances that happened through absolutely no fault of your own (e.g. the innocent victim of fake evidence example) cast reasonable doubt on every single reason the admin gave when rejecting your appeal.
  5. BilboSwaggins 2

    BilboSwaggins 2 Banned on SteamRep

    Messages:
    5
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:112351952
    Fair enough, I can't really argue with that and I do definitely see it from your perspective. It is just frustrating for me because I know that I genuinely have changed my heart and have no offered compensation to the victim. However I appreciate you don't have to accept or believe this and ultimately I must respect your judgement. I would suggest maybe clarifying what the term "new evidence" means in slightly greater depth because I believe most people would reasonably take it in a similar way. Well thank you for your time, I am sorry if you felt like I wasted it, I genuinely didn't mean to and I thought what I was saying was legitimate. I value what you guys do for the trading community and I wish you the best. Thanks for hearing me out and replying to me so thoroughly. Have a good day
  6. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,858
    SteamRep Admin:
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    Alright, I'll go ahead and close this appeal review out then.

    I appreciate your feedback on the terminology, but we do try to make that distinction very clear in the appeal review form itself, in multiple places, with examples.