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Accepted 76561198001608479 SR Caution

Discussion in 'Archived Appeals' started by samhudson333, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. samhudson333

    samhudson333 New User

    |steamID: samhudson333
    |steamID32: STEAM_0:1:20671375
    |steamID64: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198001608479
    |customURL: http://steamcommunity.com/id/samhudson333
    |steamrepURL: http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198001608479

    Hey, I'm appealing my SR Caution tag. It's my first offense, and was done without cash, so as per the FAQ this should be removed pretty quickly. I chatted Mattie about it, but he has not replied. Obviously, I'm eager to clear my name, as I fight against the people that engage in this behavior, and one single slip up should not permanently tarnish my reputation.

    If you don't feel like reading that mountain of that logs below, I'll summarize: While freshly back into trading after a 2 week hiatus, and while rushed to get to a calculus class I was rapidly becoming late to, a user added me to sell me a Vintage Max's. His account wasn't all that new, and he had no SR marks. He had decent profile rep, a non- suspicious friends list, and similar TF2 hours to me. I did not feel it to be unsafe, but I certainly agree I was not diligent enough in my investigations for such a high value item.

    When Mattie added me, I quickly and honestly told him all details of my trade, admitting forthright that I had messed up. He added me with no evidence, only suspicion. If I had been engaged in any criminal wrong-doing, I would not have given him any of the information he asked for, as I was under no obligation to. My eagerness to help him in his investigation and honesty about my mistakes should make it clear that I had no intent of buying illegitimate goods.

    Never tell your password to anyone.
    Wednesday, February 20, 2013
    3:56 PM - samhudson333: Hey Mattie. Playing TF2 with your wife right now, so I'm sorry if I take a bit to reply
    Your state is set to Offline.
    Mattie! is now Offline.
    Online now and rejoined chat.
    Mattie! is now Away.
    Your state is set to Offline.
    Mattie! is now Offline.
    Online now and rejoined chat.
    Mattie! is now Away.
    Thursday, February 21, 2013
    2:52 PM - Mattie!: Mr. Hudson, hello--- can you let me know when you have a moment free?
    2:53 PM - samhudson333: Certainly, one moment, let me finish up this trade
    2:58 PM - samhudson333: Alright, I'm all yours
    2:59 PM - Mattie!: Great-- I had a couple of questions.
    2:59 PM - Mattie!: You're a TF2 outpost staff member, right?
    2:59 PM - samhudson333: Yes, a moderator
    3:00 PM - Mattie!: You were trade-locked by Valve recently, is that right?
    3:00 PM - samhudson333: More than that, the permanently banned me for half a week
    3:01 PM - samhudson333: they*
    3:01 PM - Mattie!: They gave you a trade ban for half a week?
    3:01 PM - Mattie!: As in, your profile was marked with a public trade ban?
    3:01 PM - samhudson333: It was a permanent one, but after a talk with the head of support I had it overturned
    3:01 PM - samhudson333: Yes sir
    3:01 PM - Mattie!: And they didn't leave you on probation, right?
    3:01 PM - samhudson333: No sir
    3:02 PM - Mattie!: What was the reason they gave you a trade ban?
    3:04 PM - samhudson333: Purchasing hijacked goods. I'm a relativley large buds and keys salesman, moving several thousand dollars a day normally. I guess in one of the trades, unbeknownst to me, obviously, the trader I was delaing with did not actually own the account. I was unable to discern what trade it was, and valve's policy is not to tell me.
    3:04 PM - Mattie!: Well, in the past you purchased from a fellow named Erotic Chopsticks, too, right?
    3:05 PM - samhudson333: Honestly I haven't the slightest idea, that name doesn't ring a bell. If you had a date and time I may be able to figure that out
    3:05 PM - samhudson333: one moment, getting a glass of water
    3:06 PM - Mattie!: I suppose it was late November timeframe, so probably too far back for you to recall.
    3:07 PM - samhudson333: That's nearly a thousand trades ago, but I actually do have a slight recollection of that name from somewhere.
    3:07 PM - Mattie!: I believe it was a Hearts TC, do you recall it better now?
    3:08 PM - samhudson333: I know for a fact an unusual TC has never touched my backpack, it's one of my trading goals that I haven't gotten around to.
    3:08 PM - Mattie!: Cool, perhaps it was someone else buying from him and not you. No worries.
    3:09 PM - samhudson333: That wasn't yours, was it?
    3:10 PM - Mattie!: No it wasn't, at least I don't think so. You sell on Penguin's tf2shop sometimes, right?
    3:10 PM - samhudson333: Yeah, nearly everything I buy goes there
    3:11 PM - Mattie!: I see recently that you started dealing in rare vintages. Can you tell me a little about how you got into that market? If you normally deal in buds and keys?
    3:14 PM - samhudson333: A month or two ago Penguin sold a vintage bud for $1,000 on TF2Shop in a day of having it listed. I'm always looking for a new way to make money, and saw one for sale on SOP a few days later. I bought it for $750, and it's yet to sell. I regret buying it. I've had two sparkle lugers, one I bought from a high rep SOP trader who's name escapes me, and the other from Aimbot Sentry, an aquaintence I met through uzbekistan. That's another trading-goal-item, so I'm always looking to buy those. Yesterday a user offered me a vintage Max's for a decent price, and since in my absense from trading I lost most of my regular suppliers, and have $3,000 sitting stangnant, I jumped at it.
    3:16 PM - Mattie!: The vintage buds, are you selling that on tf2shop? Or did you pull yours down at some point?
    3:18 PM - samhudson333: The vintage buds I had on TF2Shop, but they are a dupe of Penguin's second pair that he is currently selling. During my trade ban, he accidentally told the bot to return them to me, and have since been lost from the site's database, but still residing in the bots. I asked the site's support guy, Sevrin, last night to sort it out, but he has many other problems to deal with presently, and told him to put it on the backburner while he dealt with those, as my buds aren't likely to sell in the forseeable future.
    3:19 PM - Mattie!: Makes sense--- yeah, bots have a problem with items with the same originalid. It's best not to allow dupes into those bots, if I were Penguin. But I suppose that's his problem to sort out.
    3:19 PM - samhudson333: Yeah, I planned to reccomend he make a rule about selling a dupe of another item on the site
    3:20 PM - samhudson333: We had a major problem with two other trade banned sellers and their two V big kills yesterday that I sorted out
    3:20 PM - Mattie!: At any rate, tell me a little bit about the purchase you made yesterday. I know you're a seasoned trader and an Outpost mod, so I'm certain the guy had really awesome rep, was well-known, etc?
    3:27 PM - samhudson333: To be perfectly honest, I'm very dissapointed with how I dealt with that purchase. I was in a rush, as I was running late to my calculus class, and was eager to get back into trading. I did the basic checks of his steamrep, made sure his account wasn't too new, and saw he had a decent amount of profile rep. He asked for pure buds, and not cash, and in my newly back to trading state, it didn't occur to me that I should probably check his cash rep anyways, as that's becoming an industry standard. I bought it for 17 buds from this fellow: http://puu.sh/26g7O http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198078274521 When we made the trade his profile was not private. After I got back from class, I dug around a bit more, as it had eaten at me a tad as I learned. It turned out he was banned from outpost due to sketchy behavior. If I had seen that ahead of time, I would have deleted him on the spot. In addition, his account is three months old, when I thought it was nearly a year. I'm not sure if I mistook 12 for 2, or the 2012 to 2013 change confused me, but I'll be the first to admit that upon further review this was a bad move. I'm terribly scared that I accidentally bought a hijacked good, as these are notorious for being hijacked, and that I'll be banned again. Frankly, I'm not sure what to do
    3:28 PM - samhudson333: When I saw how poor of a move I had made I added him to ask for a refund, but he hasn't accepted
    3:29 PM - Mattie!: Odd, a 17-bud offer for that item didn't strike you as way-too-good-to-be-true? Considering the one on tf2sho is up for ~twice that in cash?
    3:30 PM - Mattie!: tf2sho, that'd be a neat site, but I meant tf2shop :)
    3:30 PM - samhudson333: It didn't, because I've been told that they quicksell for around there. I know JON and Bluedemon have been struggling to get a fair price for them, and another mod Macro Power recently bought a V Big kill for a simmilar discount
    3:31 PM - Mattie!: That's why you bought it in a hurry, ok
    3:31 PM - Mattie!: Can you share me the screenshots of your agreement/chat with this guy?
    3:31 PM - samhudson333: In addition to being very late to calculus, yes
    3:32 PM - samhudson333: It was implied that the deal would not be there upon my return
    3:32 PM - Mattie!: It was? Cool, can you share the chat you had please?
    Mattie! is now Online.
    3:33 PM - samhudson333: I had shut down my laptop before I went, that's since been closed
    3:33 PM - Mattie!: So Rhombus Rhombus Rhombus is the person you spoke to about the trade, right?
    3:34 PM - samhudson333: Yes sir
    3:35 PM - Mattie!: He didn't use multiple user accounts, are you sure?
    3:35 PM - Mattie!: I'm trying to figure out if you're protecting a hijacker/duper and, thus, in league with them, or if you are someone who is aiming to prevent them from laundering through you.
    3:36 PM - Mattie!: So your honesty here would be appreciated
    Mattie! is now Away.
    3:36 PM - samhudson333: Yes, it was just him. Rest assured, I want no business whatsoever with any hijacked goods, I'm on very thin ice with steam support, really I'm not even supposed to trade for cash anymore
    3:37 PM - samhudson333: My vintage buds are still in existance, so I believe steam support did not find an issue with them and me
    3:37 PM - Mattie!: Since this was just yesterday, can you tell me how he approached you?
    Mattie! is now Online.
    3:38 PM - samhudson333: He added me and asked if I'd like a vintage Max's to complement my buds, and I told him I was interested if it was a fair price. I'm interested in most items if it's a fair price
    3:40 PM - Mattie!: You don't keep logs of your Steam chat?
    3:40 PM - samhudson333: I had a steam chat logger on my old PC, but it never worked, so I didn't bother with one on this PC
    3:41 PM - Mattie!: Okay, you have puu.sh installed, I see-- I could use your help with a couple of screenshots
    3:41 PM - samhudson333: alright, of what?
    3:42 PM - Mattie!: Just a handful of things--- just as a quick test/baseline can you take a screenshot of this chat and paste the link?
    3:43 PM - samhudson333: it appears puush is down, that's awfully inconvenient. Shall I keep trying, or try imgur?
    3:43 PM - Mattie!: Weird
    3:43 PM - Mattie!: imgur is good, too
    3:43 PM - Mattie!: But isn't as fast
    3:44 PM - samhudson333: I'm aware, it'll be quite a pain
    3:44 PM - Mattie!: Well, not really-- in theory imgur lets you paste stuff from the clipboard these days
    3:44 PM - samhudson333: does it really? I'll have to try that
    3:44 PM - Mattie!: Depending on browser
    Mattie! is now Away.
    3:45 PM - samhudson333: bah my chrome is messed up, just a ton of PC issues right now, bare with me, firefox time
    3:46 PM - samhudson333: http://i.imgur.com/vIlVH64.jpg there you go
    3:46 PM - samhudson333: I didn't want to open paint to crop it, so there's my full desktop
    3:48 PM - Mattie!: That's just fine--- since that one took a while, can you take the same screenshot again? This time scroll down to the end of your friends list
    Mattie! is now Online.
    3:49 PM - samhudson333: http://i.imgur.com/9n7GQul.jpg
    3:50 PM - Mattie!: Alright, thanks--- can you use the Steam browser there to go to your inventory history and provide a screenshot of the trades from yesterday?
    3:50 PM - samhudson333: certainly, it might take a few though, I traded a lot of keys
    3:50 PM - samhudson333: I'll try to overlap so you know I'm leaving nothing out
    3:51 PM - Mattie!: Great, thanks-- focus on the Rhombus trade first and then get the other trades around it for now
    3:51 PM - samhudson333: alright
    3:53 PM - samhudson333: uploading now, in an album, and it brings you up to my latest trade
    3:53 PM - samhudson333: http://imgur.com/a/a8HsJ
    3:56 PM - Mattie!: Can you provide a link to the profile for Bro Chillington and tell me a little about that deal? The same for Edgaras and Roberto?
    Mattie! is now Away.
    3:57 PM - samhudson333: I had a trade on SOP titled "Need 15 buds, $35 each" and they added me from there. Let me get their links. I can get you paypal reciepts for that too if necessary
    3:57 PM - Mattie!: Yeah, links first would be great
    Mattie! is now Away.
    3:59 PM - samhudson333: http://steamcommunity.com/id/edgax edgaras http://steamcommunity.com/id/everydayzzz roberto http://steamcommunity.com/id/BroChillington bro chillington
    3:59 PM - samhudson333: my appologies for the error, chillington was a key sale, we've done business some time before my ban
    4:01 PM - Mattie!: That everydayzzz guy, can you share with me the PayPal receipts for that transaction?
    4:01 PM - samhudson333: do you want the full paypal info, or can I just give you a screenshot of my recent transactions?
    4:02 PM - Mattie!: Well, just need that specific one for now
    4:02 PM - samhudson333: it's two seperate transactions, one for each trade, need both?
    4:03 PM - Mattie!: Both would be great
    4:03 PM - Mattie!: In the Edgaras case, why did you give him the buds back?
    4:04 PM - samhudson333: I've had this issue a few times before where paypal says "you must add funds to your paypal before completing this transaction" despite having 3 grand on hand
    4:05 PM - samhudson333: so I gave them back, called them up, and they weren't of much help, so I told him the situation, and he said send it to my friends account instead, so we re-traded
    4:06 PM - Mattie!: Okay
    4:06 PM - samhudson333: http://imgur.com/a/WJIIc
    4:06 PM - Mattie!: And you have screenshots for those trade chats because they are PayPal deals, etc, right?
    4:07 PM - samhudson333: I generally record the chat logs when I'm selling, but not when I'm buying. It'd be about a gig and a half of memory if I recorded screenshots of all I bought
    4:08 PM - Mattie!: Yeah, but it's important to show you're not dealing with scammers, etc. and that you did your due diligence.
    4:08 PM - samhudson333: They all check out on steamrep, Roberto has a long history on SOP, and I've traded with chillington before
    4:10 PM - Mattie!: You asked about the history of the Vintage Max, right? What did the guy tell you about its history?
    4:10 PM - samhudson333: Yes, I asked him about it, he assured me it was clean and that he had traded a few of his unusuals for it
    4:11 PM - samhudson333: It's duped to s✿✿✿, as they all are, so it'd be hard to tell if it came from somewhere bad, but from my investigation it looks like it hasn't
    4:11 PM - Mattie!: He told you where he got it?
    4:11 PM - Mattie!: What "investigation" did you do?
    4:12 PM - samhudson333: I checked the outpost history, looked through where it had been, it hasn't been in a scammer hands recently, so I figured it likely hasn't been scammed
    4:12 PM - samhudson333: This was post-purchase, by the way
    4:13 PM - Mattie!: You have the PayPal transaction with BroChillington?
    4:13 PM - samhudson333: Yeah, one sec
    4:13 PM - Mattie!: From his backpack, he certainly doesn't look like a legit player these days http://www.tf2items.com/id/BroChillington
    4:13 PM - samhudson333: no he does not
    4:13 PM - samhudson333: I suppose I should stop buying from him, then
    4:14 PM - Mattie!: Or get more info, at least, of where the stuff comes from
    4:14 PM - samhudson333: will do
    4:15 PM - samhudson333: I've got three transactions of similar value right next to eachother, let me count how many keys I got from him to see which is which
    4:15 PM - Mattie!: sounds good
    4:15 PM - samhudson333: 40 keys, $52
    4:16 PM - samhudson333: http://i.imgur.com/ie5IaFL.jpg
    4:19 PM - Mattie!: Thanks. If you double-click on the friend invitation you sent to Rhombus, what happens? Anything?
    4:19 PM - samhudson333: it takes me to his profile
    4:19 PM - Mattie!: And does his profile say "Send a Message" by chance on it?
    4:19 PM - samhudson333: Nope, add frined and invit to group
    4:20 PM - Mattie!: When you "checked" his profile, what did you see there? How many friends? Any shared friends?
    4:20 PM - Mattie!: (afk a sec, work attacking)
    4:21 PM - samhudson333: No shared friends I don't think, but he had a decent amount, at least enough that it didn't concern me
    4:34 PM - Mattie!: You're a savvy trader. A community moderator. You keep abreast of the community, and you know without any doubt in my mind, that the Vintage Max you received was from evil sources.
    4:34 PM - Mattie!: Why in the world would you touch that? Are you that deep in not caring to risk your entire reputation on something so silly?
    4:35 PM - Mattie!: You're risking Penguin's reputation, too, because you are yet-another-trader who is dumping these items into his store.
    4:35 PM - samhudson333: I disagree, I'll be the first to admit that I messed up big time, but I've been honest in everything I've told you, it was a mistake. I did not think it was dirty.
    4:36 PM - Mattie!: You thought the person selling it to you was a big shot trader, right? Someone who usually deals in those kind of high end items?
    4:36 PM - samhudson333: No, I thought it was somebody who had traded their unusuals for a high-tier vintage, had trouble selling it, and added me
    4:37 PM - Mattie!: Yes and then pressured you to take a too-good-to-be-true deal?
    4:37 PM - Mattie!: Since you didn't keep a record of the trade discussion (and pretty much every person you traded with looks shady as anything), you understand it's very very hard to believe you actually care who you're laundering for?
    4:37 PM - samhudson333: I wouldn't say he pressured me or that it was too good to be true, I think that's a fair quicksell price, I think J-O-N was trying to get 20 pure for his, 17 isn't that big of a discount
    4:38 PM - Mattie!: Right, that's why you jumped on it-- don't BS man. you knew that was an insane deal, which is why you took it and risked your reputation on it.
    4:38 PM - samhudson333: The only person that looks shady, aside form this slip up, is chillington, and that's only because of his empty inventory
    4:39 PM - Mattie!: You've got a poor shady meter. :)
    4:39 PM - Mattie!: You are an Outpost moderator who had just been locked
    4:39 PM - samhudson333: I didn't think it was an insane deal, I thought it was decent. I know it'll take a long time to sell, and I know it'll be 17 buds sitting stagnant for a while. I wouldn't dare risk my reputation on something of such low relative value, when I make so much per day by trading perfectly legitimatley
    4:40 PM - Mattie!: So you didn't check the guy's rep, right?
    4:40 PM - Mattie!: Vintage Max, duped, and you're like "I won't even check the guy's rep"? Nothing?
    4:41 PM - samhudson333: It wasn't a cash trade, so I didn't demand to see cash rep. His profile looked decent enough to me. I know I slipped up, I don't defend my actions, but they are not as bad as I'm being accused of.
    4:42 PM - Mattie!: I'm so very disappointed-- you are supposed to be someone trusted in the community. A staff member for TF2OP you can't focus purely on greed and help launder items for dupers.
    4:42 PM - samhudson333: I know, I'm extremely dissapointed in myself as well. I'd gladly take a refund if he accepted
    4:43 PM - samhudson333: I won't touch another rare vintage, with the exception of sparkle lugers that come from excessivley well repped people
    4:43 PM - Mattie!: So legit! http://backpack.tf/id/76561198078274521?time=1357632000
    4:44 PM - samhudson333: From a month ago, it wasn't like that when he added me
    4:44 PM - Mattie!: Oh I know, it was probably empty
    4:44 PM - Mattie!: http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/260916
    4:44 PM - Mattie!: He's banned on outpost even
    4:44 PM - samhudson333: I said I saw that, after the transaction when I checked it out even mroe
    4:45 PM - Mattie!: Ah, a greed first, ask questions later situation, I guess.
    4:45 PM - samhudson333: What do you propose I do? I slipped up, I know that. Do you expect me to just delete it and take a $600 hit?
    4:46 PM - samhudson333: You've got my word that I'll be excessivley careful in the future, but I don't know what to do about now
    4:50 PM - samhudson333: And honestly, if I was interested in hiding things, or was in the business of wrong doing, why would I be so forthcoming with his information and the inventory and paypal history I gave? I believe that you came to me on just a hunch due to just seeing a bunch of high value items traded with my name and a trade ban recently, but that's not enough evidence to result in a tag. If I had something to hide, I would have said my inventory history is my business, and been on my way. I know I messed up, I'm remorseful of my actions, and am trying to resolve this as conveniently for the both of us as I can
    4:50 PM - Mattie!: Yes, you might also tell me that your "laptop was shutoff" instead of capturing chat screenshots.
    4:51 PM - Mattie!: You might also not research the items very well beforehand and pretend not to know the history of the item.
    4:51 PM - samhudson333: I shut off my laptop often when I go to class, no sense in keeping it running when it's not in use
    4:52 PM - Mattie!: Surely that's the case, but you understand I hear a lot of that kind of stuff from people who "conveniently" were in a hurry and laundered items for item dupers
    4:52 PM - Mattie!: And a TF2OP mod, there's no way you shouldn't have known better
    4:52 PM - samhudson333: Oh of course I understand that, I hear the "my brother was on my account and made that spam" all the time on Outpost, but occasionally that's what happened
    4:53 PM - Mattie!: Yeah, but it shouldn't for trusted community members. There's absolutely zero tolerance for people abusing their positions to make profit and pretend they didn't know better.
    4:55 PM - samhudson333: I wouldn't say my position had anything to do with the trade, he would have added anyone selling and buying high value items, and likely did. This was an honest slip up, I make the $200 or so I plan to make on this in a day or two of good trading, it's nowhere near worth the risk
    4:55 PM - Mattie!: And you checked Rhombus on SteamRep, right?
    4:55 PM - samhudson333: yeah
    4:55 PM - Mattie!: And you noticed that his account said private there?
    4:55 PM - samhudson333: No tags, no outstanding reports
    4:56 PM - samhudson333: I did, and I asked him to make it public, because I don't trade with private backpacks, and he obliged
    4:56 PM - Mattie!: Okay, so he had a private backpack when you talked to him, but you had to get him to open it up for the purchase
    4:57 PM - Mattie!: This guy, how did he speak?
    4:57 PM - samhudson333: Yeah. I hate private profiles just as much as you, I've seen your views on reddit
    4:57 PM - samhudson333: I don't think he was russian, he spoke english well
    4:57 PM - Mattie!: (I don't hate them, I just won't deal with them for trading purposes.)
    5:01 PM - Mattie!: Anyway, thanks for your time. I need to do some more research, but we hold community staff members to a very high standard. You are in no way upholding those standards in your trading practices. I highly recommend that you keep very good evidence for future trades, avoid trading with accounts that have less TF2 than a workweek or an empty backpack. There's a good FAQ on SR for what makes an obvious scammer alt, and you pretty much ignored that for multiple trades you've done.
    5:02 PM - Mattie!: Given how easy it was for you to do this shady deal, it puts into question how you do all your deals. It's just really depressing
    5:02 PM - samhudson333: I disagree that it's been for multiple, I was more relaxed than usual with chillington because I had traded with him before, and trusted him more than an average joe. I'm terribly sorry for this situation. It won't happen again, and hasn't happened before.
    5:03 PM - Mattie!: I appreciate you being forthcoming with the screenshots, and your time. Thanks.
    5:03 PM - samhudson333: Alright, have a nice day, and best of luck in your research on the matter.
  2. samhudson333

    samhudson333 New User

    While I don't agree that the user was an "obvious" alt, I feel that for the value of the purchase, I should have researched into much more depth where the item came from and so on. As I don't feel right about profiting from shady trades, I sold the good to a friend at cost. This was a momentary lapse of judgement, and nothing more. It has not and will not happen again.
  3. samhudson333

    samhudson333 New User

    Yeah, I feel the same way. I was honest and forthcoming with everything he asked for. I was not obligated to tell Mattie the item's origin, but owned up to my mistake immediately. Not only was it not worth a caution tag, this was my first offense and it's ridiculous that months later it hasn't been removed.
  4. samhudson333

    samhudson333 New User

    Since I'm no longer tradebanned and this appeal actually is of consequence to me, I ask that it is looked at
  5. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    SteamRep Admin:
    Hello @samhudson333, as you probably know the policy on trading with scammers has been retroactively changed, so I am granting this appeal and removing your tag. http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/policy-change-trades-with-scammer-policy-end-of-life.119528/

    Read this topic: http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/appeal-tips.66354/
    And please pay special note to the following point(s):
    #24: Your appeal was granted, what now?

    For the future, we recommend taking care who you trade with. While we no longer issue tags for trading with scammers, other communities may still ban you. Additionally, if it doesn't earn a trade ban from Valve, we may still issue tags for brokering/fencing with scammers. If you want to trade with a single scammer, we won't hold it against you, but further systematic trades with scammers can still earn you a tag.