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Ethical Behavior

Discussion in 'Discussion Archive' started by Eoj Nawoh, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

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    So I was wondering regarding this.

    I currently use a few of the Unusual Searches to see if hats are 1 of 1 or etc and I also use Gibe Hats Pls to scan our server and make sure everyone on it has either unusuals or promos.

    Now I'm wondering since I am not doing anything of sharking or etc nature, do you consider that unethical?

    In my mind, if it's not being used for sharking, it's fair game, but I wanted to get input here and if it is believed that it is wrong, I'll cease using said tools.
  2. Champelliot

    Champelliot New User

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    I think you are misinterpreting the purpose of SR.
    Sr acts as a database for scammers, to prevent scammers from being able to cheat people out of money (and more importantly hats.) Our only real rule which does not involve scamming is not trading with marked scammers, this is just for the purpose of preventing them from laundering their stolen goods, and making a profit. As such, the effective golden rule of SR, is: "Don't Scam, Deceive or Cheat and don't help or assist perpetrators of the aforementioned ." Every rule we have about scamming can fit under that statement, whether it be giving fake rep or impersonating.

    If you have a trade server built specifically for trading unusual hats, then it is your prerogative if you wish to make sure that every person on your server has the means to purchase and trade unusual hats. As for using unusual searches, if a person has their inventory on public, they have accepted that people can examine it, similarly they have accepted that you may use tools to search it.
    Finally, even if you did use these tools for sharking (which I am in no way insinuating that you do,) it would still not be in violation of Steamrep's rules, as we do not mark for sharking. (Although there is a discussion on that at the moment.)
    As a result, there is nothing wrong with making sure that your servers are being used as intended. It's not considered unethical to kick idlers from a game server, so why would it be unethical to kick non unusual traders from an unusual trade server?

    Hope this helps.
  3. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

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    Yeah I was asking less "Will I get marked by SR?" and more "What do you guys think?". Yeah I know it isn't mark-able or etc, but I was just interested in ethical considerations which in terms of gathering opinions, SR serves as a convenient platform.
  4. Champelliot

    Champelliot New User

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    Well in those terms, I would say it's totally acceptable. It would be unethical if you were to kick someone who refused to trade you an unusual, or to use a bug exploitation to view someone's private backpack. But, in my opinion at least, if someone didn't want to have their backpack scrutinized by server owners and admins, they would put it on private. If you own the server you have dominion over everyone on it, and as a result, the right to make sure they are actually 'using' your server to trade unusuals rather than play sniper. There's nothing unethical in my mind about kicking 12 spawn camping snipers whose best items are uncraft hats to allow 12 people who actually want to trade unusual hats into the server.

    As a frequent trader myself, I understand the importance of finding a group of players on the same mannoconomic bracket, when I was in the process of selling high value stranges (sf and salvaged) 9 out of every 10 offers was a pile of useless hats, stranges and some low tier genuines (the deus ex set mostly). I can understand how annoying it must be for unusual traders to find people offering pointless items and fetti heavy hats for their high tier soldier/scout hats, it should be fine to make sure that everyone is in the same bracket.
    After all, if your server is an unusual server, people should only join to trade unusuals.

    That's just my 2 scrap anyway.
  5. Dignity

    Dignity New User

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  6. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

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  7. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    in depth:
    Any trader will look at other trader's backpacks on a trading server. Looking into them is part of the trading, and I wouldn't expect less. Any trader on a trade server I expect to be there for trading.

    Now, you say you kick or short ban people who do not have high value promo's and/or unusuals. That is your prerogative as a server owner. For you are allowed to shape and form your "playerbase" on your server how you want it. SteamRep does NOT tell any community on HOW to run their community, thats their own problem. We did have some discussions in the past, but we simply have 2 goals: preventing scamming and informing people who they are. As part of that, we process reports, handle appeals and research individual accounts where we deem that necessary. As a result of that, Associated Communities, like UTC, SOP, TF2OP, AF2, etc etc, who have listed admins on SR must have a rational approach to handling reports and appeals. This in regards of collecting proof, and applying that with appeals etc. We do give some guidance, but even that is within their own system and how they want to handle it. The only hard "requirement" is that it must be clear why and with proof.

    As for unethical "possibilities" to view one's private backpacks etc, that shouldn't be possible, the only thing that is possible is to retrieve the current equipped items on a played class at that moment.

    So, I'm not finding it unethical what you do with being selective of who are on your server.

    I do want to give some food for thought tho:
    If you kick/shortban traders without promo's/unusuals, you DO prevent people to be on your server that may want to buy for paypal money from other traders.
  8. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

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    Yeah, generally, I ask them why they are there and if they are using Paypal they are able to stay.

    But yes, I understand SR doesn't dictate how we run our own servers but I figured this would be a good a forum as any to speak with other members of the community and get their opinions.
  9. Chaos

    Chaos Retired Staff

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    As long as you're not using it to shark that's fine. Ethically, I don't like the idea of adding people who haven't advertised the items for sale either. Some have unusuals and don't want to trade them, so it's nicer not to bother them, but even then, you could be doing them a favour if you're offering a fair price. Just don't be pushy about it.

    It's prolly better not to add anyone, but checking that someone is right when they say 1 of 1 ect is fine and actually you doing a thorough job as a server admin.
  10. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

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    Yeah I don't really add people or even use the info. Just use it to get numbers and check mass BPs.