1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Is it fair to keep people banned for what they did as child?

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by UGF-Aviatore, May 24, 2021.

  1. UGF-Aviatore

    UGF-Aviatore Banned on SteamRep

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    Hello everyone, I was a scammer, not a problem to admit, and I was banned like 3000 days ago, almost 10 years, when I was 15/16 years old. I scammed, I think, 2 earbuds, worth 20$, for a child it was like something 'rich', and I was stupid and dumb.

    10 years have been passed, and now I keep that scammer tag on my head, even if I did anything wrong since that date, is it fair? Is it right? Is it possible that for a game, law is harder then in real life? Would you put a scammer tag on a child that stole an apple? or 20 apples? A lifetime tag? Would you put someone in prison for 10 years (and so on) for 20$? Is it fair to act like this?

    I dont care if you wont remove my tag, just a discussion about this unfair system that should be improved for future generation.
  2. UGF-Aviatore

    UGF-Aviatore Banned on SteamRep

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    And, most importantly, just one attempt of redemption for everyone? Really? So prisoners dont get any process after the first one? Where do you live?
  3. VetroZa

    VetroZa Caution on SteamRep

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    I haven't been on here for years as i quit trading i think over five years ago but this site is ridicolous. Its a community run organization with its own rules, biased admins and can completely ruin you mentally if you were to get marked. I got banned for trading with someone who apparently was a scammer, have serveral friends who's been banned for no reason. I respect the steamrep admins for trying to do a job steam isn't doing, but this site has too much power over trading in general. If i were to buy a stolen item in real life, i wouldn't be charged and put in jail for the rest of my life would i? Especially not knowing it was a stolen item. Its easy for a trader to trade a hat to a clean profile and then trick someone. Why am i supposed to go to a third party site to check the history of a hat im buying on steam? This means lots of non-tryhard traders will be banned for no reason trading with a scammer they didn't know was one. Basically people here who aren't afilliated with steam in any way get to decide your fate.
    UGF-Aviatore likes this.
  4. UGF-Aviatore

    UGF-Aviatore Banned on SteamRep

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    Completly agree, I got banned for a stupid thing I did when I was 16. Now I am playing just for fun, buying things that I like in the Steam Market, and I dont really care about trading anymore, but, is it right to have something like this literally written in your face? For what? For something I did 10 years ago? Criminals doesnt get the same treatment in real life. Its just stupid. And more then everything, you can just appeal one time in your life, why? None can change? I am not the same person I was 10 years ago... Like many others.

  5. UGF-Aviatore

    UGF-Aviatore Banned on SteamRep

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    Anyways, I hope that this thread will make them think about this. At least to give people more then a chance to redemption.

    P.S. Sorry for my written english, I am just typing fast and not really checking everything I write.
  6. VetroZa

    VetroZa Caution on SteamRep

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    Same, i think i was 14 or 15 when i got banned (managed to get unbanned) but i was accused by a massive scammer who then got exposed himself and banned. basically all he did was try to ban others to conceal himself from being a scammer(and he managed to this for a long time from what i remember). I was also accused of steamrep admin of having over 100 alts(how is that even possible lmao) and instantly banned without having a chance to explain myself. I was then obviously unbanned when i explained myself and put on a caution. You have to be very careful and do a full background check on anyone before trading, and even if you did you can't tell if that person is an alt of a marked scammer or a scammer that hasn't been marked yet, you'll be banned for it if someone notices it.

    The worst part is you can't avoid using this site if you don't want to. You'll get banned on every other trading site if you're banned here, even if all you did was trade with the wrong person.

    Anyways i think they might have changed the rules for trading with a scammer, so i might be completely wrong. I'm not about to read into the new rules tho
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2021
    UGF-Aviatore likes this.
  7. UGF-Aviatore

    UGF-Aviatore Banned on SteamRep

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    I just hope they will read this
  8. Horse

    Horse Administrator SteamRep Admin

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    First things first - someone will reply with questions on policy (not me at this time).
    HOWEVER - please do not bring up prior appeals, results of appeal or that others are posting in this thread their appeals/results.
    That is against General Forum FAQ and grounds for sending the thread into archived.
    So just that everyone is on the same page.
    We will discuss policy here but we will not discuss prior outcomes of any appeal/report.
    Here is the policy on that.
    https://forums.steamrep.com/threads/general-discussion-faq.132723/
    #3
  9. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

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    Just to be clear, the purpose of a BANNED tag is not to punish you, but to warn the community that you have a history of scamming, and you can't be trusted. That's why it's permanent. If it were meant to teach you a lesson so you don't do it again, or help the victim feel they received "justice" (what is that, really?), then a temporary ban would make more sense, but the whole point is providing information to the general public so they can make an informed decision. You scammed, and we make that known to the community through a shared public database. It just turns out the community really doesn't like scammers, as has become apparent to you over time.

    As for the length approaching 10 years (2954 days is really only 8 years, but I digress), I agree that it's harsh to continue holding this against someone for so long. Some people can change for the better over time (some don't), and a person who scammed recently is a lot more dangerous to the community than someone who last scammed 10 years ago. Treating those two types of cases as equivalent risk is not only excessively harsh to the individuals claiming reform, but weakens the credibility of bans against the really dangerous scammers. When SteamRep was established, we didn't count on Steam trading to last as long as it did, much less ourselves, so extra considerations may need to be taken into account.

    I can't promise anything yet, but there have been internal talks about situations like yours where someone has "served their time" (even though we don't consider this a punishment) and what avenues of relief we can provide them. As I said, I can't promise anything, or any kind of timeline, but I would suggest you keep an eye on our website for future developments as you might be eligible for such a reform program if created.
    There are a few reasons we only offer 1 appeal:
    1. We guarantee a fresh, impartial set of eyes on every appeal, to give you a fair chance. Entertaining re-appeals and re-re-appeals would mean quickly running out of admins who are eligible to handle your case. It would also enable admin shopping, where you contest the decision until you find an admin you're secretly friends with, or who you think might be receptive to your story. By the time your appeal is denied, your case has already been reviewed by 2 admins who independently arrived at the same conclusion: the admin who banned you in the first place, and the admin who denied your appeal.
    2. While it sucks that you can't re-appeal, it would be even worse to give you another second chance when numerous other people patiently waiting in line haven't even had their case reviewed for the first time yet - some of whom claim innocence. Believe it or not, appeals take a lot of time, work, and specialized expertise that is very difficult to fill, so we're very short-handed. It's more fair to the community that we handle those cases first, then evaluate the possibility of re-appeals after our backlog is cleared out.
    3. In some appeals, we ask certain questions, which we usually already know the answer to. We're very transparent in a lot of things, but you don't always know how much else we know about your individual case (other offenses, alts, etc), or how strong our evidence is, before appealing, so this acts as a test of honesty. We ask a question that we usually know the answer to, and if your answer doesn't match our expectations but you're still telling the truth then we'll be able to ask follow-up questions and verify your story with evidence, which will go a long way with either proving your innocence or showing character if you're pleading a change of heart. If you lie, then evidence will balloon up to prove you're lying, you'll fail that test, and you're automatically disqualified. Once we've already tipped our hand with what we know in the first appeal, we can't reliably run that same test again in a hypothetical re-appeal because now you're already well-prepared with a new cover story and fake evidence in support of your lie.
    Sorry if you didn't take your appeal seriously the first time, but we can't keep making that accommodation every time you dislike the outcome.
    Do you agree that it was fair when you got banned in the first place? By your own admission, you stole 2 earbuds from a kid, which was worth a lot more than $20 in 2013 (somewhere around $30 each) so not exactly small, and definitely something other traders deserved to know about before dealing with you.
    This isn't something we're trying to defend or model ourselves after, but I'd like to point out that convicted criminals are actually treated much, much worse, at least in the US. If you stole Pokèmon cards just once, got caught and convicted in court, you might spend a few nights in jail or pay a fine or both. But then after that, you will be branded as a criminal for the rest of your life. Certain living places, jobs, and more will forever be off-limits to you, because everything from a job application, to apartment rental, requires a background check, and you will automatically be denied if it comes back with anything less than perfect. Even if it was 30 years ago, even though you already served your time and supposedly paid your debt to society, that one thing you did in the distant past will follow and haunt you for the rest of your life, no matter what it was or how serious it was.
    This is correct. If you were tagged for trading with a scammer, you should appeal with the community who tagged you. Even if you already appealed, the policy changed retroactively and everyone previously tagged for it gets a new appeal as a result.
  10. UGF-Aviatore

    UGF-Aviatore Banned on SteamRep

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    Thank you for your answer, I really appreciate how honest it was and the time you spent to give me your motivations.

    Anyways, I wanted to reply just on 2 points.

    I completly agree, it was fair and I deserved that, but I also think that after all this time, another opportunity should be given (I hope, as you said, that you all are trying to do something about this, I dont know, maybe put a range time for redemption, or something like this)

    Luckly, there are many other countries which are not like this. I mean, you know, a country which has death penalty still active in some countries (and where weapons are free and allowed to everyone), is not the best example. Maybe you should try to check Europe regulations about this kind of things :)