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Need Admin/Mod Help Regarding a difficult trading situation I have come across

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by xxBonsai99xx, Jul 2, 2014.

  1. xxBonsai99xx

    xxBonsai99xx New User

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    Steam:
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    I would also appreciate other's input if they read this thread.

    Incase anyone is unfamiliar with how expired dota 2 cases work, they work how the old tf2 expired cases used to. They get deleted from your inventory if you open the client but you can safely store them on alt's (or your main account as long as you don't open the client) and they are regarded as collectibles.

    So now that is out of the way I was selling 3 expired cases on D2L (http://dota2lounge.com/trade?t=110422606) and I was looking at other trades to see what kind of prices they were going for. I sold my expired International 2013 case for 1 dota 2 key without any issues. While searching for Expired Crystalline Chaos prices I came across an offer by Miller on someone else's trade post (http://dota2lounge.com/trade?t=88855501) which they didn't respond to and I was interested in the offer so I went to Miller's profile and left them an offer on one of their trades to see if they were still interested in buying the expired treasure (http://dota2lounge.com/trade?t=111326645). They were and they added me, we traded and things were fine but then they after we had traded they opened the Dota 2 client and the treasure dissappeared. They seemed unaware that would happen despite me explicitly mentioning that it was expired, and understandably wanted a refund. Now I am in a difficult situation because I don't know if I should give them a complete refund ( and me take a loss) or give them a partial refund (and we share the loss) or if it is right for me to give no refund at all (which I would kinda feel bad about since they didn't seem to know how expired treasures work and I don't think English is their first language so the language barrier was also at play)

    Here is the transcript of the chat log along with pictures of the chat and trade history.

    Never tell your password to anyone.
    July-02-14
    5:47 PM - xxBonsai99xx: hey there
    5:47 PM - Miller: руссуий?
    5:47 PM - Miller: русский*
    5:47 PM - xxBonsai99xx: english
    5:48 PM - Miller: im trade wiht glomm blade
    5:48 PM - xxBonsai99xx: ok 1 sec
    5:49 PM - Miller has accepted your request to trade.
    5:49 PM - Miller: i can add rr and 2
    5:49 PM - Miller: Crystaline
    5:50 PM - xxBonsai99xx: not sure what you mean, I only have 2 of these cases
    5:50 PM - xxBonsai99xx: 1*
    5:50 PM - Miller: go
    5:50 PM - xxBonsai99xx: ty
    5:50 PM - Miller: and you
    5:53 PM - Miller: man
    5:53 PM - xxBonsai99xx: whats up
    5:54 PM - Miller: i dont have trasure
    5:54 PM - Miller: for my inventory
    5:54 PM - xxBonsai99xx: oh...you opened dota
    5:54 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I assumed you knew how to handle them since you wanted one
    5:55 PM - xxBonsai99xx: if you opened dota with it in your inventory it dissapears
    5:55 PM - xxBonsai99xx: its a collectors item
    5:55 PM - xxBonsai99xx: oh nvm
    5:55 PM - xxBonsai99xx: its still in your inventory it looks like
    5:55 PM - xxBonsai99xx: it just doesn't show up in dota client
    5:56 PM - xxBonsai99xx: oh now its gone...
    5:58 PM - Miller: you cheated me
    5:58 PM - xxBonsai99xx: dude its an expired treasure, I assumed you knew how to handle it since you wanted it
    5:58 PM - xxBonsai99xx: expired treasures dissapear when you open dota, you can only have them if your invent if you don't open dota
    6:00 PM - xxBonsai99xx: not quite sure what you want me to do, I'm in a difficult situation since you seemed to not know how the expired treasures work
    6:01 PM - Miller: what me do now?
    6:02 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I'm not sure. I can't exactly refund you since I would get nothing back and I'd be out the item.
    6:02 PM - xxBonsai99xx: Hmmm
    6:02 PM - xxBonsai99xx: keep me added we will have to figure it out
    6:03 PM - Miller: how would I opened it?
    6:03 PM - xxBonsai99xx: you can't open the treasure that's the thing, it's only meant to be a collector's item
    6:04 PM - Miller: give me something in return
    6:05 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I don't know I still have to figure out what we should do, I'm going to talk to a Steamrep moderator and see what their take on it is
    6:05 PM - Miller: why you gave me the chest that which does not disappear
    6:06 PM - xxBonsai99xx: not sure what I could give you back without giving you back the whole item
    6:07 PM - xxBonsai99xx: because you were interested in an expired crate on someone else's trade and they never followed it up but I was interested in the offer you gave to the other guy, I explicitly mentioned that it was expired in offer :/
    6:07 PM - Miller: you have chests are not eliminated and open
    6:08 PM - Miller: you did not say that the term has expired
    6:09 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I mentioned it in the trade offer on lounge that it was expired :/
    6:09 PM - xxBonsai99xx: but let me make up a post on steamrep, and we will figure it out
    6:11 PM - Miller: as soon as we stop talking you remove me
    6:11 PM - xxBonsai99xx: no I am not taking you off my friends list
    6:12 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I don't scam people, I am just making a post on steamrep for an admin to look at to see what we should do in this situation
    6:12 PM - Miller: just give me a chest which I can open and all what I want
    6:13 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I can't just give you another chest because then I'll be out an item.
    6:13 PM - xxBonsai99xx: We will have to figure this out, but it isn't going to be an instant solution
    6:13 PM - xxBonsai99xx: it might take a bit of time to get this sorted out
    6:15 PM - Miller: and what I can with this, to get only apologize without any return or compensation
    6:16 PM - xxBonsai99xx: we will figure out if I can give you anything back
    6:16 PM - xxBonsai99xx: but its a loss for me as well
    6:17 PM - Miller: just tell me it makes sense to wait
    6:17 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I am going to get a Steamrep moderator to take a look at the situation and give me their advice on what we should do
    6:18 PM - Miller: ok so i must wait
    6:18 PM - xxBonsai99xx: yes unfortunately, we will get it sorted out as soon as we can
    6:19 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I am just making a post and I will send you the link to it when it's done if you wish to see it.
    6:19 PM - Miller: I will be able to receive something?
    6:20 PM - xxBonsai99xx: I am not sure yet, that's what we will figure out
    6:20 PM - Miller: ok
    6:35 PM - Miller is now Away.

    Attached Files:

  2. Ninja Otter With A Taco

    Ninja Otter With A Taco Retired Staff

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    From the looks of it, he didn't realise the crate would expire when you sold it to him, next time you sell expired crates I'd make sure you tell people that they get deleted when you go into the game (even if they already know) so that they can't blame you if it does get deleted. With the refund that's tricky, tbh I'd give a full refund however it is up to you (however wait for a SR admin's comment on this if you really don't want to give the user a full refund and instead give him only a partial refund)
  3. xxBonsai99xx

    xxBonsai99xx New User

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    Thank you for the input, It definitely seems like I should just give him a full refund since I didn't make 100% sure that he knew what he was buying despite it seeming like he did. I don't like to take a loss but hey, it seems to be the right thing to do. If a SR admin/mod sees this I would still appreciate a response from them to see what the official stance is on this sort of situation.
  4. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    Also, if you could mention the value we're talking about, that might help, I'm not familiar with Dota2's items and their worths. (refineds? keys?).

    step by step as I understand it:
    - Buyer offered item on a different person's trade.
    - You where interested in the item, and the original trade offered up on it didn't follow up on it.
    - You contacted buyer to sell the offered upon item to him for the offer he made there.
    - Trade was successful
    - Buyer opens Dota2, and gets item deleted.
    - Buyer asks for refund.

    Sigh... Normally I tell ppl that after a trade, and the buyer wants to reverse, its up to the original trader if he does the service to reverse it (keeping customers happy). But as you cannot retreive the item back for its been deleted from the backpack, that doesn't fit here entirely. Also, this situation calls for all kinds of questions:
    - Did the buyer REALLY not know what expired crates are? (with other words, trolling, making a mesh, creating problems for fun)
    - Did the buyer accidentally open the dota2 game or not (forgetting to trade it off to another account)? (falsifying story etc)
    - Was item maybe traded away already without your knowledge, and you getting told the item was deleted. (...)
    - etc.

    Your reference of your own offered trade is not relevant unless you had actively linked him to your trade there, and made sure that he read it/saw it etc. And even then it should on your trade say what expired chests are to make it still stick etc.

    So the difficulties would not end with you paying back. There is no way of getting real proof that he didn't know etc.

    But outside all of that, the buyer offered on a Expired Chrystaline Chaos on D2L. Sorry, but that makes the end of it really. Its up to the buyer to check out what he's offering for, the properties and its quirks etc. And then you offer him exactly that....

    ===
    solution....(?)

    I did see in the conversation him asking for a different chest. Maybe a normal recent crate might satisfy him to open it or something? (again, don't know values, in TF2 these are less then near worthless otherwise). It looks to me that he just wanted to open a chest, and that he doesn't really care what chest it is. You might want to offer some chest that isn't worth that much or something. But to my understanding of the situation, that's the max extension of what you should do.

    Also, he asks about opening the crate, but I glanced over the backpack, but I didn't recognize any "key" in it, does he even have a key?
  5. You Are The One

    You Are The One Appeals SteamRep Admin

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    (imo) Your obligation to him ended when you successfully traded him the crate to begin with, fulfilling the trade agreement. I personally would not hold you accountable for something the other user did.
  6. xxBonsai99xx

    xxBonsai99xx New User

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    The crate in expired treasure of crystalline chaos seems to be worth around 1/3 of a Dota 2 key at the moment.

    Recently in Dota 2 they had re-released the old crates with a keyless version that you could buy in the Dota 2 store for the price of a key ($2.49) and then open. With this update they expired all of the old crates since there was essentially no need to keep them around. When he was asking for another chest I assume he meant that he wanted one of my New Keyless Treasures of Crystalline Chaos since I also had a bunch of those in my inventory. I had recently bought them during the summer sale where they were being sold it the Dota 2 store for 80% off ($0.49)

    But as you said he offered on an Expired Treasure and agreed to buying an Expired Treasure without any hints otherwise that he really wanted one of the New Keyless Versions until after the fact when he opened Dota 2 to attempt to open it.

    Regardless I sent him a trade offer offering his item back, he just has to accept it.

    Thank you again all 3 of you for your input on this, I never envisioned encountering a situation as strange as this when trading.
  7. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    SteamRep Admin:
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    Ah new crates can be opened without a key on Dota2 then... hmm. Well, as YATO above said, and as I implied, you are not obliged to appease you customer. I only said what you MIGHT do if you wanted to.
    Neither will hurt your rep here on SR. And there will always be unhappy customers around.