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Remove 3RD Party from issuing SR tags

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by Starfish, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    I am here to discuss the fact that a third party website can Steamrep ban someone even if they don't have sufficient proof. Today I witness a regular member of the Vatican City community where I am admin receive a scammer from Harpoon for "knowingly brokering for a scammer" and the proof of this was just 3 screenshots which were 3 cropped screenshots of the backpack.tf item history. Below is the link to the accepted report that resulted in Worldcast being marked as a "scammer" on Steamrep.
    https://forum.harpoongaming.com/threads/76561198160120451-worldcast.37961/

    I feel that reports like this that can get someone marked as a scammer should only be dealt with by actual Steamrep admins/moderators as they know what they are doing.

    Thank you for your time.
  2. Enstage

    Enstage SteamRep Admin Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    It's ironic because the reporter in that report is also a SteamRep admin, so shouldn't he know what he's doing by your logic?
  3. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    Ah is it, now I feel like an idiot... why is the SR admin using Harpoon Gaming then to mark someone as a scammer instead of using Steamrep? Also why is he using insufficient evidence.
  4. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    Are you sure it is SR admin? this guy appears to be the owner of Harpoon Gaming apparently so he made his own report and accepted it.
  5. Enstage

    Enstage SteamRep Admin Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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  6. a Gentleman

    a Gentleman SteamRep Moderator Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    A partner community cannot Steamrep ban someone. The most they can do is mark them as banned by a partner community. Same red tag, different source of the ban.

    Also Eoj has been an SR admin for over two years. One can suppose he knows what he's doing. :)
  7. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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  8. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    So you think 3 screenshots of backpack.tf item history is sufficient to have someone Steamrep banned as a scammer?
  9. a Gentleman

    a Gentleman SteamRep Moderator Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. The member of your community that you are talking about has not been marked by SteamRep, but by Harpoon. If they wish, they can file an appeal there.

    Specifically, you need to read this pinned guide about how to appeal a ban from Harpoon.tf - which is not appealable on this forum.

    I see that the marked user also has the admin Eoj Charlie added. Have your user message Eoj and ask for clarification instead of posting here. Take a look at my uploaded screenshot. It even seems like your user knows what is happening and is trying to resolve the situation on their own. You brigading on these forums will have no difference on the outcome of that user's mark. Partner communities have the authority to mark users as untrustworthy on their own.

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  10. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    Anyhow, I left a comment on his profile about it, so meh, u guys can lock this thread then as me posting this will get me nothing but "defending my own" replies lol
    I do understand, and I'm not here trying to remove his mark. I'm here to bring up just saying how lack of evidence can get you marked on Steamrep. Even though that mark was on HPG it still shows on Steamrep that he is banned, that is my point.
  11. a Gentleman

    a Gentleman SteamRep Moderator Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    The part where the evidence in the report clearly shows three distinct TF2 item histories where the item goes from a marked scammer's backpack into your community's user's backpack on three distinct days?
    Here, I'll even upload that evidence here for you!

    There's no point in locking a thread where the logic plays itself out.

    Again, you commenting on Eoj's profile will not help your user's case. In your comment you mention "Steamrep" report. It's a report that was made and processed at Harpoon.tf - treat it as such. It is up to the user themselves to appeal on Harpoon.tf's forums.

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  12. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    The evidence you provided above could mean anything and tons of people make mistakes and trade a scammer everyday because they didn't check that is why those people get banned on backpack/tf2outpost for 2-3 weeks and sometimes even permanent bans on those websites for stuff like that. SR used to mark those users then changed the policy January 2016.
  13. a Gentleman

    a Gentleman SteamRep Moderator Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    Well aware of that. Again, Harpoon Gaming is not SteamRep.
    Again, three items on three separate days?

    If you have nothing else constructive to add besides from trying to convince SteamRep to prevent partner communities from issuing partner community tags, I think we've exhausted this discussion on the merits of Harpoon's evidence requirements. If there's an issue, take it up with that community.
  14. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    Do you think I lack intelligence or something? I KNOW ITS A HARPOON REPORT.
    I am saying to him that if he made a SR report with the same Evidence it would NEVER have been accepted.
  15. a Gentleman

    a Gentleman SteamRep Moderator Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    I see that trying to direct you to the most efficient resolution (posting on Harpoon forums) isn't working.

    If you are trying to make a case that Harpoon Gaming should not be allowed to issue a partner tag or that HG should be taken off of SR Partners... message a SteamRep Admin.
    If you are trying to make a case that SteamRep Partners should not be allowed to issue partner tags or that SR should no longer have partner communities... message a SteamRep Admin.

    I rest my case.
  16. Starfish

    Starfish New User

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    Well sorry, I didn't realise people would get this annoyed with me about trying to discuss evidence used in such reports on 3rd P sites which can result in a red mark being put with a scammer tag on someones profile.

    I'll drop it, and I did take notice of your redirect I just do not want to be involved with that website at all. No hard feelings, I didn't want you to become angry with me, I just wanted to discuss this as it seems to be an unfair issue.
  17. Clive

    Clive SteamRep Admin

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    We have a procedure for if a partner community improperly tags people (not saying this is the case, since I haven't reviewed the case in detail), however that process is done by the user that is tagged, not a 3rd party. The marked user also appears to admit to brokering for a marked scammer on their profile, so I'm not sure what the cause for alarm is.

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  18. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

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    @Eoj Nawoh is both a SteamRep admin and owner (plus designated admin with tagging rights) of the community Harpoon Gaming. He can issue tags on behalf of SteamRep or his own community, Harpoon Gaming, depending on the circumstances and report. A couple of admins here have that sort of dual-role, and I know it's confusing, but this is still a completely different community.

    While I thank you for bringing this to our attention, for the moment we'll have to wait it out and see what happens. I don't know if the there is more to the report than meets the eye (there often is) because partner communities tend to have their own evidence on file that's not accessible to SteamRep admins, but we do have a policy on tags for brokering with scammers. We also have policies for users who were "mis-tagged". I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but the person who got marked needs to appeal it with the tagging community before anything else. Only after the appeal is unfairly denied can he come to us for a review, by following the instructions from our FAQ for an appeal review. (Note: I am not making any judgement on the case.) While partner communities can make mistakes, they are given the first opportunity to correct it. SteamRep admins are expected not to intervene until the partner had that chance.

    Simple misunderstandings of our tagging policy have happened with partner communities before, and it's honestly more reasonable to correct those misunderstandings with partners and try to fill the gap where a misunderstanding took place than to scrap the program altogether.
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  19. Grey7

    Grey7 New User

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    That brings up a question I have.

    Why exactly are people are people banned for brokering for scammers?
    I understand that it's bad to avoid your ban by having someone else trade for you, but if they aren't scamming in the process, shouldn't it be allowed?

    Could an Admin please explain this?
  20. a Gentleman

    a Gentleman SteamRep Moderator Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    The original premise of issuing brokering marks was to make it hard for scammers to launder items through legitimate traders - much like real world money laundering.

    Over the years, SteamRep has modified its original policing for marking users that trade scammers (no longer banning for individual trades with marked users, but still advising caution against trading with them). If you are knowingly doing high-volume trades with a marked scammer, you are essentially laundering stolen items for them. You can still be marked for that, as many people have been.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
    Grey7 and Roudydogg1 like this.