1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Scamming expire date? Trading with meanless scammers?

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by gukingofheart, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. gukingofheart

    gukingofheart New User

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    There are currently Scammers: 12879.
    That's a lot of scammers first of all.
    How many of these scammers scammed years ago but never filed an appeal(maybe laziness, maybe doesn't care about steamrep).

    I know the site says we shouldn't trade with scammers, but is there an exception to this rule?
    Let's say someone is marked for buying scammed items. The trader never actually scammed.
    Now I trade with him knowingly.
    So does that mean I'd be marked for trading with a guy who traded with a scammer.
    Seems kind of silly, doesn't it?
    If the site keeps marking everyone, there won't be many decent traders left.

    So how about an tag expire date?
    Scammers, who did minor scamming get their tagged changed to "Caution" after 6 months to a year automatically.

    By minor scamming, I mean they made like a few keys profit(combing all their scams), bought items from a scammer. Attempted to quickswitch(and would of gained like 8 keys max).
    Where ever you want to draw the line at.

    I'm just starting to get annoyed when I find some decent deals or a buyer and learn they once scammed.
    Usually once I learn someone is marked, I remove and block them.
  2. Horse

    Horse Administrator SteamRep Admin

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    I'll go down the line here:

    Many most likely that prob don't even play the game no more.

    No

    Yes - don't trade with "marked" scammers.

    not really

    Plenty of decent traders left - they won't get tagged if they remain "decent"

    Hell NO - this is something that was talked about once and something that I will not back.

    again.. HELL NO - don't trade with marked scammers to get into that position in the first place.

    There is no "minor scamming" a scam is a scam theft is theft PERIOD. There is no line to draw...as I said theft is theft no matter how big or small the scale is.
    Sucks don't it, You should ask yourself where you are finding these people and if they are on servers that do not run the SR plugin perhaps you should tell the admins or owner however you can to get it so you and others won't have this problem or trade on those servers that run it and prevent them entry.
    VenGanZa likes this.
  3. gukingofheart

    gukingofheart New User

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    I don't use trade servers, I use outpost and backpack.tf
  4. Horse

    Horse Administrator SteamRep Admin

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    Mistake #1 - use servers, when you PLAY the game you accumulate items and show support for the game which Valve views and then continues to support so long as they can see it is being played. Utilizing sites for trading is really IMO killing how the game was meant to be used trading or not. Not trying to disrespect those sites but it is what it is so I suggest you think about what I said and wonder why Valve would support something they don't see people play.

    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?snr=1_4_4__10
  5. gukingofheart

    gukingofheart New User

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    I do enough playing, and I hate trade servers.
    The aggervation is so great, I rage..I mean, I really really rage!
    Makes me want to quit TF2 so bad!

    Trading sites are more relaxing.

    I don't care about dropped items anymore..the value of metal is so worthless
  6. Horse

    Horse Administrator SteamRep Admin

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    you apparently go to the wrong ones then... well managed trading servers won't give you that issue. ;)
    Eoj Nawoh, DataStorm and Mattie! like this.
  7. Ninja Otter With A Taco

    Ninja Otter With A Taco Retired Staff

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    may i just say - I'm pretty sure you only get given a caution tag at first if you trade with scammers. And even then that comes after a warning, (Although i think they do give scammer tags if you trade with them more than seems normal) Also TF2OP bans people who are scammers so if you are using OP you shouldn't run into the problem of scammers.
  8. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Yeah, pretty much spot on.

    SR tend to treat cases on their merit. Someone who is new or unaware of SR is not going to be tagged, however experienced traders are not afforded quite the same consideration. If I knowingly traded with a scammer for example, SR would probably fully tag me in the first instance (and rightfully so).
    You Are The One likes this.
  9. Randinie Grey Beard

    Randinie Grey Beard New User

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    Many of your questions seem to forget one major point, what about the victim of these scams? One key maybe nothing to you but for many players it is everything, weeks or even months of saving scrap to get just one key and than to make a mistake and get scammed. You don't scam people by accident, you don't 'slip' and 'whoops I scammed you'. It is thought out with intent, purpose. Scamming isn't about how much or what was scammed but the act itself, saying it was a minor thing is only belittling the value someone else places on their item(s) and replacing it with your own values.


    "If the site keeps marking everyone, there won't be many decent traders left."
    Scammers are not decent traders so marking scammers has no effect on the number of 'decent' traders.

    This isn't so much about marking bad people as it is offering a means for people to protect themselves from would be known scammers.

    "I'm just starting to get annoyed when I find some decent deals or a buyer and learn they once scammed."
    Your getting annoyed because you can't benefit from some one else suffering????? Upset because you can't help a scammer prosper??

    Scammers EARNED their scammer tags, but removing the tag after a period of time is not a wise act. Blame the people before them who abused the trust re given to them, they poisoned the field which these new scammer tread and have little chance of their tag being removed, which I agree with. But if a finger of blame is to be pointed, point it at the scammer, he made the choice to harm another person, there by making him accountable for his actions.

    Its really simple, don't scam and don't support scammers, it is really that simple.
  10. You Are The One

    You Are The One Appeals SteamRep Admin

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    At one point we did draft up something for specific dishonest trading practices that would otherwise leave a user marked, I would rather not list any examples publicly for obvious reasons. It was unfortunately scrapped and substituted for giving appeal admins the discretion, a side effect is same offenses in a few cases had different judgements (and why I would prefer the guidelines)

    One issue that I can share (of many tho) Is even if a tag is timed, and lets say they have a new offenses or other offenses on other accounts that otherwise would not be caught by a manual review of the case, they would be automatically unmarked w/o review. That was my biggest objection to that plan and why I do not think automatically timed tags work.
  11. gukingofheart

    gukingofheart New User

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    "I'm just starting to get annoyed when I find some decent deals or a buyer and learn they once scammed."
    Your getting annoyed because you can't benefit from some one else suffering????? Upset because you can't help a scammer prosper??

    I get annoyed with the fact they added me in the first place and getting my hopes up.
    ------------------------------------
    What about expire dates then for traders who never even scammed. They just made a mistake by trading with a scammer(non-purposely) and never bothered to make an appeal.
  12. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    its not as easy as 1 trade with a scammer to get a scammer tag for trading with scammers, so no, that one doesn't fly either.
  13. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

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    Amount of Scammers: 12,879
    Amount of Accounts on OP alone: 381,864
    Amount of Traders: Much more than those.

    I highly doubt that we're run out of traders.
  14. Nathan Cash

    Nathan Cash New User

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    Ya well I think if someone scammed 8 keys as you said they should never be unmarked. But someone who scammed 2 rec 4 months ago ....... :p But seriously I don't think tags should expire. If they feel enough time has passed that they should be unmarked, they should appeal themselves.
  15. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

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    The issue with scamming tags and scammers in general, is that often times they are repeat offenders. And if they're tag expires, why wouldn't they keep going?

    Tags stand as evidence and a warning to traders about this person's choice to scam. That falls on them.
    And that's another issue, where would we draw the line? You may see 8 keys as a minor scam, but to someone who only had those 8 keys, it was everything to them. To new traders, a key is quite a lot.

    Just because you deal in buds and higher trading, doesn't mean that the impact of the "smaller" stuff is any less great or any less hurtful to "smaller" traders. The "effect" of a scam is in the eyes of the beholder and I, personally, would be uncomfortable with anyone telling me something was a minor scam so the person who scammed me is getting untagged.

    We can't draw a line where scamming is minor or not important enough to mark. If you lost a bud, but that's where the line was, would you accept that the person got off scotch free?
  16. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    we've seen scams where minor traders got scammed out of their first bills, where they had traded months and months to get it together, they traded all their worth for that bills, and then that bills got scammed. Or they got scammed for even less out of all they have worked on for a long time to get. I really wouldn't like to "automate" a expiry on them...

    Also, if a scammer scams for a refined, would you ever trust 'm with a unusual?
  17. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    CanadianInvasion likes this.
  18. CanadianInvasion

    CanadianInvasion Retired Staff

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