1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

TF2 Spreadsheet Scandal

Discussion in 'Discussion Archive' started by Duskfall -a^DF, Aug 28, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Fiskie

    Fiskie tf2bazaar founder Partner Community

    Messages:
    113
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:26166446
    I was only doing some guesswork from what I was getting, then again our ads are not intrusive at all compared to Sheet.

    But, 15-20 grand? Holy s✿✿✿, no wonder he's so motivated to manually edit a spreadsheet all the time.
  2. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,663
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    ^^ This

    I can understand that at times people will not agree with every decision an entity like SR makes, but to make wild claims such as those we hear from time to time about SR "going too far" or "abusing power" and similar is patently not justified.

    Everyone needs to understand that SR can only exist because it is accorded trust by the community, without that it would fall over like a house of cards, and it is wise to remember that Valve and SR maintain some ad hoc linkages that may well be strengthened in the near future. If Valve places some degree of trust in SR, you would think there is reason to do so no?

    From what I can see, SR tries to conduct its work with quite a deal of transparency, which is why we are all free to comment in a thread like this one, even if the title is rather dramatic :)
  3. PotatoPotato

    PotatoPotato New User

    Messages:
    44
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:5381368
    The OP raised an interesting question, which I can shine a little light on:


    The Spreadsheet owner's statements definitely give the impression that there are many people involved in the site. He usually refers to himself as "We". However, he has never identified any of these collaborators, or himself.

    Despite the vagueness of these claims, and the total lack of proof, the idea that it's operated by a group has taken a very strong hold in the community. I frequently see people repeat it as an unquestioned fact, even now. It's often repeated to dismiss doubts about the spreadsheet's reliability and trustworthiness (in fact, the Spreadsheet admin used his own anonymous shill accounts to do exactly this).

    It's hard to disprove a claim like this, and in fact it seems very likely to me that there are at least one or two other individuals who are connected to the spreadsheet in some way (in the sense that they were apparently aware who was really running it, at least), and they may have had inside knowledge of forthcoming price changes or even influence over them. I just didn't have time to look into their activities, so I focused on the guy at the center of it all.

    All I know for certain is: every single account I found that appeared to be a member of the Spreadsheet's 'staff', could be traced back to only one person, who was deliberately creating the impression of being many different individuals. That's at least 15-20 accounts in total, including multiple shill accounts active on the same forum in some cases. In fact, there are so many that I gave up looking for them. After looking at one or two cases, there's no point proving exactly the same dubious behavior again and again.

    If you read the discussion in that Reddit post you linked to, then you'll notice that the Spreadsheet Admin's first reaction is to repeatedly claim that an alt account is not him, but 'a friend'. He only stopped claiming this and admitted the truth when the mounting pile of evidence began to make this claim look ridiculous, and a Valve employee testified that his four accounts on the Steam trading forums were controlled by the same person and being used to deceive other Steam users.

    I want to repeat yet again that he used those secret accounts for some pretty vile activities, such as sharking inexperienced traders. This isn't my opinion or speculation; I'm not just claiming it without evidence. Read the final report. It's all there, with screenshots.

    http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/...a001-and-76561198037908684-stf2-updated.9825/

    I feel that I have to repeat this, because the Spreadsheet Admin is now using his blog and his public statements to spread the story that he only used those accounts for 'bumping' his trades and promoting his business. This incredibly cynical attempt to blur the truth has taken such a strong hold in the community that I've even seen it repeated by an SR admin in this thread.
  4. Duskfall -a^DF

    Duskfall -a^DF New User

    Messages:
    387
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:41806566
    I might be taking a bigger step here than needed, but if the Spreadsheet becomes completely discredited (and at this point, it probably will, since evidence heavily indicates wrong doing), then what?

    I've only been part of the TF2 community since the F2P update (Yeah, I'm a former F2P). As I understand, the Spreadsheet was a key component in deterring sharks and setting a general price for items so people don't feel ripped off when they sell that Familiar Fez for two scrap. I think there was another site with a similar... thingy (choice words, I know). It had backpack in the name, IIRC.
  5. Fiskie

    Fiskie tf2bazaar founder Partner Community

    Messages:
    113
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:26166446
    you mean backpack.tf, it's a successor alright. Community-based pricing complete with API.

    I'm sticking with using it on Bazaar to prevent new traders from being stupid.
    Sjru likes this.
  6. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

    Messages:
    3,437
    If you mean my comment, I'm not giving any comment on the offenses, the bumping is "admitted", I just didn't state anything about the other offenses that are under review. That would be too soon without any verdict. So if you see it like that instead of that I choose to not talk about the offenses, that is out of my hands.
  7. D4t Ch33z3

    D4t Ch33z3 New User

    Messages:
    9
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:47346408
    I'm Totally agreeing,But the Spreadsheet owner is already marked.
  8. SiickNastikillr

    SiickNastikillr New User

    Messages:
    38
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:41868651
    Yes, but he can tell people that it was a biased, unjust tag...if SR were to mark him, there would be little doubt he was in the wrong, simply because SR is credible, and handles cases in a fair manner. This is not to discredit Reddit in any way, or any other communities associated with SteamRep, it is simply that an SR tag and a link to the evidence speaks a lot more than a red tag by itself.
  9. Chaos

    Chaos Retired Staff

    Messages:
    1,386
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:33058557
    Reddit do a great job with tags. Remember, we share 2 great admins! The problem was reported there, and hence has been handled there. It's as simple as that
  10. Moose M.D

    Moose M.D New User

    Messages:
    33
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:35634275
    SR doesnt have a single s✿✿✿ of power unless you give it to them. The only place where this place being used is in paypal transactions that involve monetary value. Day to day traders do not use steamrep on trading servers.
  11. jameless

    jameless Guru Retired Staff

    Messages:
    375
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:19765576
    I agree that SteamRep doesn't have any power if noone uses it. I don't think SteamRep is after power though. The intention of the site is to help keep people informed and to try to help protect the average trader. If you think the only way to get scammed is by doing a paypal trade, you should probably hang out in the reports section for a little bit.

    People may not realize they are using SteamRep on trading servers, but on many servers they are. There is a SteamRep plugin out there for server admins to protect their servers from scammers that checks the database for players that join. So even if the players aren't checking rep on the players with the !sr or !rep command, the server will do a cursory check on arrival.
  12. fxu

    fxu New User

    Messages:
    19
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:12100580
    I can't say I'm surprised that a pricing spreadsheet was manipulated by the guy who ran it. I'm only surprised that it took this long considering how tf2 trading has been out for quite a while. It's only a matter of time that the next spreadsheet that follows it will be used this way as well.

    Called it here, folks.
  13. D4t Ch33z3

    D4t Ch33z3 New User

    Messages:
    9
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:47346408
    True,might be another Raging year of Kids With spreadsheet.
  14. SiickNastikillr

    SiickNastikillr New User

    Messages:
    38
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:41868651
    I see you missed my point entirely in favor of bashing SR. I said that SR marks have power in the fact that they oftentimes come with a link to evidence. The current Reddit mark has no link to evidence, therefore, when people begin to learn that the spreadsheet owner is marked as a scammer, he can make up a whole bunch of lies, or perhaps simply mistruths (which he has already fed to his viewers via that blog post he made after the reddit thread) to cover up the truth. The important thing, IMO, is to show the spreadsheet, unless it undergoes new management, and drastic changes, is not worthy of the trust that is put in it.
  15. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

    Messages:
    3,437
    1. There is a entire reddit thread on it
    2. In that thread, some of that "evidence" has been posted links to.
    3. also in that thread; Upon review by a valve employee, he decided to ban the guy from SPUF. for w/e that is worth.
    4. I believe the link to the reddit thread is also in this topic...

    It really isn't hard to find.... don't make me post a "lmgtfy" link...

    Should the link have been posted on the profile? maybe. Does that serve any goal? maybe too. Matter of fact is that its still being investigated. Once the admin that is handling that has worked through all of it, we will see the status then.
  16. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,663
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    Please do not make ambit claims, it only shows your knowledge is rather scant.

    I suggest you find better trading servers, many in fact do use SR pluggin, for example on my network (Gamers United) we use SR pluggin on ALL of our trade servers.
  17. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

    Messages:
    3,437
    I know some gaming-only communities have the SR plugin, for all their servers, for their admins got scammed, and hate 'm. But its beside the point.

    Back to TF2 Spreadcheat.
    [WP] VenGanZa likes this.
  18. gukingofheart

    gukingofheart New User

    Messages:
    452
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:49222635
    Just because one person sold a weapon for 8 keys, doesn't mean the spreadsheet should of been marked as 8 keys.
    People would of flamed big time if he did this.

    Why is he marked as a redit scammer? That has nothing to do with steam. :(
  19. Duskfall -a^DF

    Duskfall -a^DF New User

    Messages:
    387
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:41806566
    He is marked because he is suspected of having used his spreadsheet for his own (and quite massive) gain. If you have read the reddit post thoroughly, you'll see that there is a lot of evidence against the spreadsheet admin.
  20. PotatoPotato

    PotatoPotato New User

    Messages:
    44
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:5381368
    I can't speak for the Reddit admins or SteamRep, but I think they may have banned him and marked him as a scammer simply for his everyday trading activities, at least in the beginning. That's because the fact that he was lying, sharking and scamming was just blatantly obvious, as soon as his alt accounts were discovered. He even admitted to controlling all those other accounts, after lying about it originally.

    You'll notice that when was still trying to defend himself, he completely avoided talking about those shameful activities, pretended they never happened, and only discussed the other allegations that were less serious or more difficult to prove.

    An admins' duty is to protect other users from scammers, and the best way to do that is ban a scammer immediately, based on the evidence they already have, not wait while they investigate additional crimes.

    As you quite rightly said, he's also suspected of using his spreadsheet for his own profit, but that's much harder to prove conclusively, because you have to figure out which of his many accounts he is using to trade and then catch him at the moment that is actually doing it.

    There is no real public record of trades he has done in the past, no record of the Spreadsheet's history to compare them to, and no way to find his secret alternate accounts. (In fact it's going to be even tougher, because he set all his accounts to private). And there's no way easy to know if anyone else is using inside information to trade. Even if by chance you happen to catch him making one or two suspicious trades, as I did, then he can still argue that his motivation was innocent, even if his behavior looks very suspicious.

    However, it is going to be very hard for him to come up with any believable explanation for the fact that he was changing the prices of items within a few minutes of trading them for a profit, and doing stuff like buying something for 8 keys and then 10 minutes later using his spreadsheet to tell the rest of the world that the buying price is 10-14 keys. He has been trying to explain it, though... o_O

    He's the only person who controls and operates the Spreadsheet. There is nobody else to mark, at the moment. Please read my post above, which explains how he used 15-20 accounts to pretend to be many different people.

    I guess he's marked as a Reddit scammer because hundreds of thousands of TF2 players and Steam users also use Reddit for trading, etc, and because Valve staff used Reddit to release evidence that proved he was dishonest, and because Reddit mods operate TF2 trading servers and forums, and because he used anonymous alt accounts on Reddit for some of the bad stuff he did, and because this was originally reported on Reddit. Several prominent SteamRep admins are also mods on Reddit, by the way.

    I'll link to the SteamRep report again, because it's much clearer than the Reddit report:

    http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/...a001-and-76561198037908684-stf2-updated.9825/
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.