1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Accepted TF2 Warehouse

Discussion in 'Archived Applications' started by TF2WH, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. TF2WH

    TF2WH Friend Community

    Messages:
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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:21816563
    1. Please list the URL/IP of each server in your community that runs the SteamRep plugin and how many days each has been running it.
    None.

    2. Have you made any modifications or changes to the SteamRep plugin? If so, please list.
    No

    3. Please list the URL of your community's Steam group.
    http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2WH

    4. Please list the URL of your admins Steam group.
    http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2WHADMIN

    5. Please list ALL admins (not in the above group) and/or moderators of your community below with links to their SteamRep profile (e.g. HelenAngel -http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561197977521239)
    triddin http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198003898854
    moujave http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561197998510252
    partym http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198011301521
    shnaw http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198029927281

    6. What are your community's policies on scamming & scamming-related activities?
    Strongly opposed, automated banning, countermeasures to limit post-hack dumping of items.

    7. Why does your community wish to be affiliated with SteamRep?
    To use the SteamRep database to automatically block scammers to protect our honest users, and to display our support to discourage scammers.
  2. TF2WH

    TF2WH Friend Community

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:21816563
    Uhm, well there was no question asked, but I'll try to answer as if there was.

    1. We were never trade banned. The accounts were locked while Steam worked with us to improve our systems.
    2. We have no trade server, but we do trade. Quite substantially in fact. Before the accounts were locked, we were doing about 1.25 million trades a month.
    3. We only just setup the admin page because it's a requirement. We only have 4 admins and 3 of us work together so it's not really a problem for us to just talk to each other.
    4. Wanting to stop scammers isn't useless. Ever.
    5. We actually are a gaming community, just perhaps in a format that you're not that familiar with.
    6. If there's no point applying, and that's the decision handed down then fair enough. We just want to show our support for SteamRep.
    7. None taken.
  3. HelenAngel

    HelenAngel Retired Staff

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:8627755
    Thanks so much! We're reviewing your application now and other admins should pop in and ask questions as well. :)
  4. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    SteamRep Admin:
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    Ehm in regards to "no point applying", I dont think there is "no point". Working against scammers requires cooperation between communities and "usage sites" or w/e you like to call them. Sites like TF2OP, TF2R and TF2TP do contribute a lot to our anti-scammer measures. Affiliated communities aren't required to have Trade Servers. If a Community/site or w/e form some group thinks of to make a service that has value, then we're fine to look into it.

    Also, this is about banner exchange so far, and the only things that really come into play for such is:
    - Is it related to Steam/TF2 trading/gaming etc.
    - Is it safe for us to recommend our users to go there, without being sharked, scammed, or w/e unfair abuse (and other ppl might do, but such Comm. would generally have rules against it etc).

    The other points have been addressed more fully by the OP already.

    Please stop assuming things about SR, for we are a complicated beast that is build up from experience.

    I've been following the recent developments, which I have questions about, but those aren't for here. See PM.
  5. Rob

    Rob New User

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:4565259
    This is hilarious.

    Now that all those scammed and hijacked items created a problem for you... you give a crap about the rest of the community? Self-serving much?
  6. TF2WH

    TF2WH Friend Community

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:21816563
    I'm not really sure why you think this is funny, or where you get the idea that we don't care about the community? We are always about the community, and our reputation is clean. We always deal fairly with everyone we do business with.

    Scammers and impersonators have and do cause ongoing problems for our users and extra workload for our staff in dealing with it, we may have been less than fully aware of the extent of the issue prior to this point, and perhaps that's on us, but we've just gotten a lot wiser recently.

    There were issues admittedly, which have caused us and our users some annoyance while we rectified it, and we also do want to make sure it doest happen again, so in that sense, yes you are correct, we are being "self serving" to some extent. Is that a bad thing?

    Even before we had these problems though, we have tried to assist tracking down items when we find out that they are stolen and come through our site, even going to the trouble of searching for and returning identified stolen items to the original owners at our expense.

    We appreciate SteamRep providing the service, which we're using at the moment via the API.

    We want to repay it by raising awareness of this site, and supporting it by providing a link back from our front page.

    We hope that our implementation of the SteamRep API dissuades some of the newer traders introduced to our site from ever being tempted to scam, or feel that it's a viable option.

    You don't have to like us, I think it's probably obvious from your tone that we've managed to anger you in some fashion, at some point, but I assure you we do genuinely care, and want to help out.

    If you don't feel that we're a good fit for your site, we'll obviously respect your decision.
  7. Rob

    Rob New User

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    203
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:4565259
    http://forum.tf2wh.com/discussion/4680/banned-for-marked-steamrep.-please-read.

    So your answer is to steal from marked scammers? Pretty sure this is considered scamming. Mind showing me where in your rules there was anything posted about you reserving the right to withhold credits due to a mark on Steamrep?

    Also I am in no way affiliated with Steamrep, I'm nothing more than a concerned citizen.
  8. TF2WH

    TF2WH Friend Community

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:21816563
    As we have stated, we are not taking away their credits, we are just refusing to trade with them until they are cleared from SteamRep, as per our agreement with Valve/Steam. If you want him to have his credits back, approve his appeal. Otherwise my hands are tied.
  9. Rob

    Rob New User

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    203
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:4565259
    So in the event he is not granted an appeal on SR, his credits (which very well may have had nothing to do with his mark) you retain his credits indefinitely (IE: theft). And your agreement with Valve, is based on your compliance with SR policy? Even though scamming a scammer is officially against SR policy...

    I'm not sure I fully understand your position here.

    Also I find it incredibly hard to believe that Valve is telling you to withhold credits from people marked on SR as scammers.
    Dave the Manly likes this.
  10. Scalia

    Scalia Retired Staff

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:6523098
    Several questions here.

    1. Besides the SR plug-in and complying with Valve, what other precautions are you taking to ensure that your system is not being used as a fence?
    2. What happens to the actual item that you receive if it is determined the item was stolen/hijacked/etc? Does Valve delete it? Do you delete it? Is it recirculated?
    3. Suppose someone has accumulated 100 credits in the past, all legitly. They are then marked a scammer by a community for whatever reason, let's say they traded an uncraftable weapon instead of a craftable weapon. Would that person's credits be with-held because they were marked a scammer in another community?
  11. Rob

    Rob New User

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    203
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:4565259


    http://forum.tf2wh.com/discussion/4722/faq-tf2wh-says-your-banneds-check-here-for-info

    Excerpts:

    1. What happens to my credits? Why can't I access them until I'm un-banned?
      The credits will stay attached to your account but you will not be able to use them until you clean up your steamRep profile
    2. SteamRep DENIED my appeal and I have credits, what now?
      Just like above, you probably will not see those credits again. You may ask an admin what will become of this, provide proof of your failed appeal. However, I highly doubt you'll receive your credits back.
    3. This is a scam! I want my credits!! You are THIEF'S!
      Not really a question, but ok...
      Problem is the warehouse has no control over SteamRep.
      They are also unlikely to go against valve and give you access to your credits. The reason this whole situation came about was because of scammers using the warehouse to fence items and chances are, if you are banned on steamrep, you were probably part of the problem.
  12. Scalia

    Scalia Retired Staff

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:6523098
    That answers one of the three.
  13. Rob

    Rob New User

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    203
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:4565259

    I can't speak for the other two unfortunately.
  14. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

    Messages:
    11,992
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:0:89705646
    Ehm, the statement:
    *yes, I know its not a "official" faq of curent WH issues.

    Where to start really...
    We are independent of valve in regards of marking/unmarking scammer or not. Valve doesn't tell us how to operate SR. We adhere to the intrinsic of the reports the community provides. We see our obligation to stay true to the community, and while we are still human and make errors, we do not like to breach the trust relation the community vested upon us. This caused some painful decisions and rules here and there, but luckily almost all make sense ;). As such we require ourselves and listed communities to be outstanding with the trust invested upon them.
    The only "working" relation we have with Valve is that we in intermittent cases have provided them with info / rung the alarm. There has been maybe 1 or 2 times that we even got feedback that our "concerns" where not true regarding some suspicions.
    Valve implemented public shown trade bans / probations etc, which we then implemented on SR, but they did that independently without us asking for or them asking any to us. They only requested to name it in a specific way on SR.

    So "going against valve" has no bearing whatsoever on our operations, for we are not executing anything Valve asked us to do. As is stated, we're NOT affiliated with Valve in any way. This means basically that we are working "outside" Valve just like anybody else.

    *replace "valve" for "steam" w/e appropriate.

    Now I'm just getting the feeling that this is just hiding behind Valve and SR for transition issues that just should be addressed by WH with Valve. Also I'm starting to get curious about what the exact agreement with Valve is. But i can understand that that isn't something for here, you can PM me that if you like.

    @Scalia:
    1. they are using a "level" system where a newb can only trade so much, and after a week can do a bit more, with a bunch of stepping.See: here
    2. Redeem if found item be scammed/hijacked, recirculate otherwise is my best guess.
    3. Was answered already.

    The other thing is Scammers trading to WH and after trading got marked from this point on. This is some problem I still have no good feel for. For on one hand, they are duly noted that they will get banned, on other hand WH gets those "credits" in the long run... This will accumulate over time to quite some stuff. For most of those goods wont be claimed by valve to be brought back to its rightful owner or w/e.

    This needs some thinking over for me. A lot of to be addressed issues.
  15. homeyhomedawg

    homeyhomedawg New User

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:41864988
    Here, one of the admins clearly states after an "initial period" the credits will magically disappear.

    http://forum.tf2wh.com/discussion/4740/closed-scammer-credits#Item_10

    If you get your account appealed, you can get back all your credits. If it becomes an issue (which I don't expect it to after the initial period) then I will do something about it, but realistically, if you are a scammer, and you have a high chance of getting banned, would you leave credits lying around?
  16. homeyhomedawg

    homeyhomedawg New User

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:41864988
  17. homeyhomedawg

    homeyhomedawg New User

    Messages:
    26
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:41864988
  18. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

    Messages:
    1,445
    SteamRep Admin:
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    To comment on the posts above. I don't believe they stole your credits. They put a hold on them. Much like trading with a marked scammer gets you a caution, I imagine WH doesn't want that to happen to them, so they freeze the credits. They aren't stealing the credits then selling them because the credits serve as a digital currency. (To my knowledge) there isn't a limited amount which means WH doesn't take yours and sell them, they just create more for those individuals, and freeze yours.

    All in all, I believe, if you have a scammer tag, you can't expect to use WH to continue your activities.
  19. imphasing

    imphasing New User

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:17202775
    Seems like a great way to make profit. Take items from scammers/hijackers by the boatload, ban them, after a certain amount of time if they're still steamrep marked take the items and BAM FREE CRAP.

    Even if they are scammers, tf2wh is just scamming their items right back in essence. I don't see how anyone can support that kind of model in good conscience. SR will mark people for doing exactly what tf2wh is doing on a massive scale, which confuses me to no end.
  20. imphasing

    imphasing New User

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    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:17202775
    I basically see tf2wh as a delayed trade system, it's like if a trader agreed to take someone's items, then after a certain amount of time, give them the items they REALLY wanted in exchange, say they had to go out and buy some keys or something. I give you my buds, you tell me you'll give me 23 keys in a week. Then it turns out I get steamrep marked before that week is up, you you keep my buds and don't give me any keys, because you "don't trade with marked scammers" or something. That is scamming itself in my eyes, and tf2wh's policy of making marked scammer's credits "disappear" after a while equates to exactly the same issue as the one I outlined before, to me.