1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Why do scammers not get their account banned by valve?

Discussion in 'Discussion Archive' started by Sausageson, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. Sausageson

    Sausageson New User

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    I do not understand, Valve ban people's accounts for hacking and hacking is just a minor inconvenience in one game, while I just learned that scammers get trade banned and only for a couple weeks. They still get to keep their ill gotten gains and play games on their account. Scamming seems much worse than hacking in games as they are actually stealing valuables from other members of the steam community making it a sketchy and not safe place.

    Also how long does steamrep and steamsupport usually take to respond? I submitted a report to both on Friday afternoon but no response from either yet.

    Thanks
  2. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    Steam support takes on average about a week.

    As understaffed SR is, it takes longer.

    See the FAQ sticky in this section for a good explanation of the VAC / Trade Lock/ Valve Trade Ban and Trade Caution. Hacking = VAC ban, which isn't a trade ban, it prevents ppl joining a VAC secured server (bout 99% of the servers around).

    The items from the REPORTED scams often are taken away, but due time lag there may be problems around that, mostly with already been traded away etc.
  3. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    I certainly recommend you read the FAQ Datastorm suggested, and both Valve and SR indeed face the same issue, too many bad people and not enough people to investigate and act :)

    You should bear in mind, that Valve do not look at "scamming" with the same eyes SR does, and perhaps rightly so, after all they cannot be expected to micro manage individual transactions. Certainly Valve and SR's areas of investigation to overlap in some areas, but in general terms what SR does covers other areas. We should be thankful that SR is able to serve as a conduit for the community to at least try to keep a lot of the bad eggs that Valve might otherwise not touch at bay :)
  4. Sausageson

    Sausageson New User

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    Do you think steam support would return the item I was scammed of, if the item is still in the scammers account? It was was BMOC and I was supposed to recieve paypal.

    Also thank you for the answers to my questions
  5. AcesGamer

    AcesGamer User

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    Since Valve's TOS doesn't cover anything outside of their own trading system, the chances of getting your item back is slim to none.
  6. OmgZippy

    OmgZippy New User

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    imagine u buy alot of game in steam and u get ban, what u feel?
  7. Sausageson

    Sausageson New User

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    They shouldn't scam people then, I don't know why I would ever feel sorry for them. Imagine what the scammed party feels. So many scammers are too confident and use their main steam account because they know nothing will happen to them, this makes people think they are trustworthy to trade with.
  8. Sausageson

    Sausageson New User

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    lol just noticed you are a scammer, of course you would want to be treated leniently.
  9. Mr.Bubbles

    Mr.Bubbles New User

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    because we steal pixels
  10. Man from Terra

    Man from Terra New User

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    Banning accounts isn't necessary as long as they are tagged which often doesn't happen as well. I am even more puzzled as to why they would not reimburse items. Every single mmo does that - how is steam platform any different? Its online, it involves games, it involves trading and there are issues with privacy and items descriptions to begin with. I think that Valve needs to be pushed by community in right direction on this but i have hard time finding any threads discussing scamming on official forums at all.
  11. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    They reimburse, but not on out of steam trades, they cannot support that. So if you trade your earbuds for 30 keys, and then find that Valve deleted those keys, you can claim your earbud back... but if you traded those keys forth for other stuff, then it gets complicated for part of the keys are still in your possession, you got other items for it, how is it then right to reimburse the earbuds? A lot of people are muddying the water when things like these happen. If one is a slow trader, you have the advantage, for most often you still have all the stuff that you got out of it. Another way that it makes a problem, is when people are buying stuff with multiple items on either side, and only 1 of the items is being retracted. Whats there exactly to reimburse? someone buys 3 bills with 40 keys, 4 keys have been scammed/carded, those get removed.... should they get a bills? but the 4 keys are not equal a bills, so a bills isn't the right compensation, but something else with the same value in items isn't in the trade, and hows valve to determine what price you paid for what item?

    They cannot let the keys in existence, or the item that was unboxed from it. And they cannot compensate for the trade was muddied.

    You may in above example say: I still got the other keys, undo the full trade... but those keys are bought and paid for, so there is no legal destination for them. They may oblige, for the argument is there that its your keys and they can reimburse you.

    But now take the paypal/money buyer... how are they going to re-imburse you when you supported a scammer or scammer ring or someone who bought from scammers or hijackers? Can that be?

    its nice and all that one wishes to be reimbursed, but its totally not realistic when things are muddied either by a part of the trade, or out of steam trading.

    That is the problem.
  12. Man from Terra

    Man from Terra New User

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    I believe that solution can always be found. When the real world money are involved - its not an issue of Valve or steam so a victim should instead open the dispute with paypal/webmoney, they will repay you in most cases. When steam wallet money involved - victim should get his money back. When keys or other items involved - the trade should be reversed completely.

    If Valve finds that someone illegally purchased the keys then used them to buy items - only the responsible party should be punished and while keys might be deleted for anyone who was unwillingly involved, they should be reimbursed with steam wallet money.

    The real issue is - there is no issue at all if you are willing to deal with a situation rather than ignore it. Unfortunately the latter is most used approach by Valve and i am saying this despite actually enjoying Steam platform.
  13. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Yes indeed.

    In fact obtaining any relief depends on the good will of Valve/Steam, since legally we have no ownership of anything (including keys and such we purchase), it is only those right expressly conceded to us which allow recompense in certain instances. If more people bothered to read T&C, TOS etc there would be less confusion :)

    For example, this is a good read once you learn to unravel legal speak: http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
  14. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    Really, they cannot "refund" in steam wallet money, for that would be costing them MORE then leaving the key in your backpack. why? well, you can buy a game on steam, from that money, and then Valve has to PAY that company for that game. Get of the notion that one gets money, they will never do that. The only way they reimburse is by giving items back, and with emphasis on "back".

    Valve is a corporation, they need to make money, not to give it away from their own pocket. They do give away, but only in REWARD for something. And if a situation is there, they can maybe alleviate some situation by doing some stuff with the items. But that depends on the complexity of what one did with the stolen stuff... and other involved items traded for etc as I described.

    To be honest, I rather would have that valve just took it, not reimbursed. A lot more ppl would be way more careful of avoiding such bad accounts. That they do so with items, indeed as Venganza says, is from their goodness.
  15. Man from Terra

    Man from Terra New User

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    As i mentioned above - in every major mmo you can be reimbursed by developers either directly (with items) or indirectly (with gems/money/points etc.). Its not an issue and not an original idea of mine.

    Valve IS a major corporation and the DO make money. Reimbursing legitimate victims of a fraud would not cost as much as you think. We can hardly imagine the amount of money getting filtered by their in game stores to begin with.

    I was reimbursed on numerous occasions in EQ2, for example, when i lost or deleted items. Hundreds of times my friends and guild mates made petitions to restore chests, items and even in-game currency. I had once restored my complete account with all items and characters on it. I was reimbursed money in Star Trek MMO once after a faulted payment and twice in EQ2. Banks constantly repay their customers who had their credit cards stolen. And don't forget about insurance company's. The air is thin but the money can always be made of it at some point.

    It really doesn't matter whether you look at this issue on "just an online game" level or "real world value" level.

    The real goal is in fact (as you mentioned) to make money, and in order to do so company's will and should keep their customers happy. The fact that Valve does not at this point provide proper reimbursement of "value-time" lost in fraudulent activities is not a sign of their financial state but simply a result of the lack of pressure by gaming society to change their ways for the better.
  16. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    The problem is that most people (you included) do not bother to read terms and conditions.

    It does not matter if you are talking about Guild Wars 2 or Microsoft, end users have no rights over code, rights are limited to usage and dependent on disclaimers/clauses etc, in other words users are at the mercy of the good graces of the companies involved.

    Given most major companies are focused on growth and profit, with shareholders to placate, they never spend the kind of money end users would like them to spend on support services, this is one reason Valve is very much appreciative of SR, they have a whole bunch of talented volunteers who do work which to some extent marries well with what Valve itself does :)
  17. Man from Terra

    Man from Terra New User

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    Legal documents are not made of stone and can be changed at will to reflect the current needs and the direction the company takes. Of course we are at mercy of the corporations but that doesn't mean that we can't yell really loud, complain and make demands. And we should. Because this is how society works.

    If they are focused on growth and profit then surely they are not interested in scammers rampaging through their systems unchecked and thousands of players getting cheated and disappointed by their inaction.

    I am not entirely sure why are you trying to defend such inaction or at least deny the possibility of Valve actually turning their eyes to this issue. I am sure however that Valve is very much appreciative of your work and volunteering will never be out of context or out of use. In the end - its about keeping as many people as possible satisfieds and keeping the system in check, and 1% of 1% of profit (my ass suggests that amount for some reason) isn't even a factor in play in here. More likely its about time, management and desire to change ways in general which, as i mentioned, will not come unless people ask for it.
  18. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Indeed and in modern times, social media has been a driving force in getting larger companies to modify views and policies :)

    Oh and I am not trying to defend anything, this thread and the detailed info it provides, will no doubt be of tremendous value to Valve, and I hope it leads to them making CC checks and the like much stronger
  19. Man from Terra

    Man from Terra New User

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    Ok. Now this is just too unrealistic. I realize that no one from Valve will ever read this but it is a nice way to "loose some steam" (yes it made me cringe as well) after you've been scammed twice in a row and apparently can't do anything about it except hoping for the best.
  20. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    I can promise you people from Valve are aware of this thread :)