1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Will the function of SR be diminished soon?

Discussion in 'Discussion Archive' started by Champelliot, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Yeah I noticed scorched crates and such.

    I am sure one or two fools with try this, most people don't even read the FAQ, guy trying to sell a community key over the $200 limit too :)
  2. WarNev3rChanges

    WarNev3rChanges New User

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    I'm curious how SR plans to handle people purchasing from marked scammers moving stolen goods into keys and then selling the keys in the market.

    In the beginning, someone is still having something stolen from them, but then the keys are "legitimately" purchased from the scammer - likely by someone who isn't bothering to check SR pages on items that move so quickly at low prices. Granted the scammer now has wallet money to deal with - but that's still real money. Whether it's worth the same as PayPal (can't pay rent as mentioned above) is not the point I'm looking at here.

    So does someone who grabs up a bunch of keys at a good price from a marked scammer - since Steam and SR aren't sharing that data, scammers can sell their full 200/year items rather quickly - does the person purchasing that stuff get a mark for "knowingly" trading with a marked scammer? All because the time it would take them to check the seller's SR profile means they'd likely miss the deal?

    I can try to elaborate here if necessary, but I hope that question is somewhat clear.
  3. Dronefly

    Dronefly New User

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    Selling items that are expired is not illegal. Ultimately it is up to you to understand what you are buying. Many collectors buy these items and keep them in accounts that never open the game. This is not really scamming as much as lack of being able to describe and warn people about the item disappearing should you load the game. If there was a place to put a description with the item it would be easy to warn people. I just don't see how you can scam in this store. Only via chargebacks and that gets reversed by steam because they protect people against this type of fraud. I would image that if steam sets up a store they run they will take responsibility for fraudulent loopholes
  4. Evanescence

    Evanescence New User

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    Scam will never gonna stop, it's can only get lowered by using common sense.


    Sadly, many people don't use common sense and think they are safe no matter what. Some people don't realize trading on the net is having the same high risk of trading than in real life.


    No matter what VALVe do, use common sense.


    Also, now, i strongly suggest to avoid any Paypal trade when it's less than 200USD.
    Because, if nearly ANYTHING goes wrong in a purchase of an item in this, you will somehow be protected a little by VALVe, but NOT fully. So still take care using this system.




    I wonder how VALVe will handle people trading dupe items in this?!¿
  5. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    It WAS announced back in Oktober 2010, by a valve employee on spuf about "money trading". Took a very long while, got my suspicions on why it took this long.
  6. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    question is, will that include also another "dirty" item state that is being watched for?
  7. Horse

    Horse Administrator SteamRep Admin

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    Nothing to get excited over IMO... Valve will not "Launder" funds no matter how great yall think it would be, they are not that stupid.

    moving on...
  8. [Gent] Jeremy

    [Gent] Jeremy New User

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    Keys will always be cheaper when paying in Paypal or other money transfer, so that's where there will always be more people.
  9. Oz' dak1ne

    Oz' dak1ne New User

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    If you pay through paypal on Steam, wait for the item become available to trade and then chargeback on PP, you can easily do that? So dunno if it's a good thing this market beta, just because of that.
  10. Nobel

    Nobel New User

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  11. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Look, most people who play and love this game, use one account, and perhaps eventually an ALT for storage (I do not have any ALT for example and have a lot of hours).

    The majority of people with a ton of alts are scammers, not everyone surely, but the majority :)
  12. Nobel

    Nobel New User

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    I didn't mean for scaming purposes, just a general observation as to what the new market thing could do. It also means that backpack expanders are going to be severely undercut.
  13. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    So?

    I do not care if X is worth 1 key or 10 keys... something is worth what someone else is willing to pay. They do teach capitalism and market economy still right?
  14. MarcusGT

    MarcusGT New User

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    I respectfully defer to the seasoned veterans on here like Mattie and Venganza, but being that I come from a real-world investment background, I tend to apply my experience in economics and finance to these sorts of discussions. I think the long term implications of this for the market are not that hard to predict, but ultimately not as scary as some people seem to think.

    Mattie hit it on the head, the fundamental difference between the current trading marketplace and the new Steam marketplace is the underlying value of the currency - one uses real money, the other uses virtual money. Just like with anything, we've all seen or dealt with trades that require "overpaying" in a certain type of item for another type of item. Same concept will apply here and factor into the Steam Marketplace pricing. The most recognized upside, as people have also mentioned, is the protection - which arguably is reduced, not guaranteed. This is seen in a lot of different types of investments made in the real world, and it boils down to a valuation that the market assigns to it, plain and simple.

    If you look at this from an economics perspective and try to use another real life example - Steam Wallet currency is kind of like having a gift card. Having a $50 gift card to a restaurant, for instance, means it cost someone $50, and potentially it can get you $50 worth of merchandise that you'd otherwise have to pay cash for. However, to another person, that $50 gift card isn't worth its face value, because they just don't really care for that restaurant - and to the issuing restaurant, it also doesn't actually cost them $50 to issue it.

    What I believe will ultimately happen is that there will be specific items that do well in the Steam marketplace, and ultimately sell for an adjusted (higher) price that will be tied to an exchange rate which will fluctuate as wit anything else. The current TF2 marketplace will have another macroeconomic factor influencing the prices, inflation, and values of items so for serious routine traders, they have another force affecting them they will need to stay on top of. The Steam Marketplace will be a PART of the TF2 trading economy, not a competitor to it. It will be another way to obtain goods just like trading, unboxing, etc. Overall, I feel, the impact will be somewhat mitigated by the opposing forces the Steam Marketplace introduces. It will create new opportunities, but also present new challenges. As a whole, I do not see any real obvious reasons it should undermine the current trading community - at least not from a more academic perspective.

    I have seen people go up in arms during every update about how the introduction of some new gimmick or item or rule is going to wreck the trading economy, but again, people don't really seem to appreciate the real risks to TF2 trading. Valve IS the gatekeeper, period - and while I find it amusing how people like to assume they can predict what Valve will do, in the end unlike a truly free marketplace, Valve controls the destiny of every item in TF2. Even though people think they OWN the things in their BP, the truth is an argument can be made about whether those items actually exist - because in my opinion they don't. They are virtual items that exist in a world that could disappear overnight. Maybe if you buy something from Valve - a key, or an item from their marketplace, you have some recourse, but let's be honest the items of real value in people's BP do not have a value assigned by Valve nor do you have claim to the value of that item from Valve. It isn't like owning a real tangible item that you can feel and touch, you not only own abstract computer code, but abstract computer code that only exists within a video game environment that you have zero control over. That is the real risk factor with TF2 trading, and as long as you maintain that perspective, the true implications of these types of discussions revolving around a new marketplace, or new strange items are really not nearly as cause for concern.

    Just my $.02
    [WP] VenGanZa and Butane like this.
  15. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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  16. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Indeed, by virtue of the inherent restrictions of steam wallet I would venture to say not the major part. I am hoping however that if usage is significant and sustained, average real world sales prices might tend to usurp and inform the speculative and easily manipulated figures of the various web pages around the place.

    Very nice post Marcus, and most certainly your $.02 appears a sage investment in a bullish market, think I will drop a bundle and hedge everything on you :)
  17. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

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    I think it will invite more ppl to the trading marked, the ones that are not willing to invest much time to it.

    The avenues added are that ppl will sell their items, buy some games for themselves or sell those for "currency" items, and cash out there. They can also buy other items ofc, but that would mean another 15% gone to Valve.

    Any money on steam will end up either in games or Mann Co store or the like eventually. The 15 % Valve is taking out of it is too high imo. For any money will end up in their pocket, or a substantial part of it (Valve gets a rather large percentage of non-valve games sold on Steam). All the while when the money isn't used yet, it means they have this already on their bank account, getting interest over it, or able to use it.

    I like the whole thing, for the inexperienced trader can now safely trade for steam wallet money.

    Valve taking the 15 % and the inability to cash out directly from the steam wallet, will mean that that money is worth less. My guess is that it will be around 20-30 % worth less. But we'll see. It will just become part of the possible ways to trade, but I think it will be for the more "lazy" kind of traders who don't want to go about on OP or forums or w/e.
  18. wic

    wic New User

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    Valve did a genius move on this one. Atm, only buyable (or our out of chest) items are for sale.
    Someone paid for it, doesn't like it, sells it, and Valve earns abit of money out of it (again).

    I'm pretty sure they do know how the trading world works, nothing will collapse, it's just another win-win for them (As is the workshop, have designers making hats for free as it is the greates hat sim out there)!
    I love this "everything will crash in tf2 economy" thinking though, reminds me of programs like "Doom-Preppers"
  19. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

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    Yeah they know exactly what they are dong :)

    I am only surprised that keys are included in what can be sold, but that in itself says there is method in their madness.
  20. Dronefly

    Dronefly New User

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    So as a large volume seller I have been studying the new marketplace and here is what I concluded.
    Buy key for : $1.25 on sourceop or outpost (they are still lots out there for this price but it is rising to $1.30 soon).
    Sell key for: $1.65 on marketplace ($0.40 profit).
    Buy Game on Demand : $1.00 per key value ($0.25 loss).
    Net profit: $0.15
    The market already shifted back to where it was before this whole steam marketplace was created. Only difference : STEAM MAKES MONEY!

    Surprised all?