Declined 76561198039517062 (AlcatorSK)

Victim:
|steamID: -=Schutzenbauer=-
|steamID32: STEAM_0:0:10906614
|steamID64: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197982078956
|customURL: http://steamcommunity.com/id/schutzenbauer
|steamrepURL: http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561197982078956
SourceOp forum account (if applicable): VICTIM_FORUM_NAME

Scammer:
|steamID: AlcatorSK
|steamID32: STEAM_0:0:39625667
|steamID64: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198039517062
|customURL: http://steamcommunity.com/id/AlkySK/
|steamrepURL: http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198039517062?t=1344480365

Screenshots:
http://imgur.com/a/MP9Rm/

Description:
Scammer posted a giveaway on steamgifts.com (
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/ZJiuD/torchlight) for 3 copies of Torchlight. I have contacted him is he wanted to trade one of those copies for a different game and he/she agreed. We ultimately agreed on the following trade:
P
rototype + Torchlight 1 + Torchlight 2 (all giftable copies) FOR Majesty 2 + Dungeons - The Dark Lord (both keys)
I told the person then I will post the key into the chat, he/she then opened the trade window and entered 3 games into seperate windows but didn't click READY, I pasted the first key for Majesty2 into the chat window and the scammer then broke off the trade.
[ code ]-=Schutzenbauer=-: hi
AlcatorSK: Hi.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: sorry to bother you I have noticed you are giving away torchlight and I just wanted to know if you would like to trade it with me, I have a number of games to offer
-=Schutzenbauer=-: would you be interested?
AlcatorSK: Maybe. What do you offer?
-=Schutzenbauer=-: 1 sec please I will post my list
-=Schutzenbauer=-: Dota2
Majesty 2
Space Empires IV Deluxe
Making History: The Calm & the Storm
Reign: Conflict of Nations
Rig N Roll
Syberia
AirBuccaneers
Eschalon: Book II
Men of War: Assault Squad - DLC Pack
Party of Sin
Adventures of Shuggy
iBomber Defense Pacific
Dungeons - The Dark Lord
Galactic Arms Race
Livalink (for Desura)
Major Mayhem (for Desura)
AlcatorSK: one sec please
-=Schutzenbauer=-: sure
AlcatorSK: Majesty 2 is just the base game, or also including DLCs?
-=Schutzenbauer=-: base i think
-=Schutzenbauer=-: let me check
-=Schutzenbauer=-: well I have some dlcs in my inv but not sure If I got those with the game or somewhere else
AlcatorSK: Well, OK, this is my offer:
AlcatorSK: You may get Torchlight I for Majesty 2, or
AlcatorSK: you may get Torchlight I AND Torchlight II for Majesty 2 and Dungeons - The Dark Lord
-=Schutzenbauer=-: what other games do you have for trading, and how many Torchlight 2 do you have?>
AlcatorSK: I've got one TL2 remaining from the 4-pack.
AlcatorSK: Besides that, I also have "Bunch of heroes", "Trine", "Far Cry collection" ( = 1 + 2), "prototype"
AlcatorSK: that's about it.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: would you be able to make it 2 x Torchlight 1 and Torchlight 2 = Majesty 2 and Dugeons (both games are my last copies)
AlcatorSK: no, I couldn't, because I have 4 copies of TL1 and have to give 3 on the giveaway
-=Schutzenbauer=-: ok, 1 sec let me check with my friend
-=Schutzenbauer=-: so instead of one torchlight 1 can you add one of the other games?
AlcatorSK: outside FarCry collection, yes. Which one would you like?
AlcatorSK: Bunch of Heroes, Prototype, Trine ?
-=Schutzenbauer=-: 1 sec please I will check
-=Schutzenbauer=-: are Tocrchlight 1 and 2 and all other games giftables?
AlcatorSK: Yes, fully giftable, no locks or anything on them.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: ok just 1 sec please trying to choose
AlcatorSK: When you get them, you'll be able to add them to your inventory and then re-send.
AlcatorSK: Take your time, I'm making a map for Grimrock
-=Schutzenbauer=-: ok prototype, Torchlight 1 and 2 will do
-=Schutzenbauer=-: I will post key here
You have accepted the trade request from AlcatorSK.
-=Schutzenbauer=-:

Hidden Content:

**Hidden Content: Content of this hidden block can only be seen by members of (usergroups: Administrative, Moderating).**

-=Schutzenbauer=-: majesty 2
AlcatorSK: why are you posting a key???
-=Schutzenbauer=-: yes Majesty2 already posted
-=Schutzenbauer=-: dungeons next
AlcatorSK: But why? Just use the trade interface...
-=Schutzenbauer=-: its ok just copy and paste into your activate window
-=Schutzenbauer=-: and activate the game
AlcatorSK: sorry, no deal.
AlcatorSK: Farewell.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: I will report you
AlcatorSK: For what? For not wanting to participate in suspicious trading?
AlcatorSK: Good luck with that, chances are you will take the blame for that.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: for taking game, stemrep.com
-=Schutzenbauer=-: have chat log
AlcatorSK: I haven't taken your game. I don't care about your key.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: you agreed to the trade, activate the game
-=Schutzenbauer=-: nothing suspicious key works fine
-=Schutzenbauer=-: just can check
AlcatorSK: The only legitimate trading is via the Steam trading system.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: dont bullsheat
AlcatorSK: You should have added the game to your Inventory, then use TRADE.
AlcatorSK: That's the last I will say on the matter, go in peace.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: you activate keys on steam too
AlcatorSK: ... when you buy them.
AlcatorSK: not when someone gives them to you via Chat.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: as soon as you go you are being reported so its your choice, you wont be able to trade anymore
-=Schutzenbauer=-: send me the games now
-=Schutzenbauer=-: and then I am posting the next key
AlcatorSK did not respond to the trade request.
AlcatorSK: Stop your threats, they are unsubstantiated.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: I am not hreatining you, I just have to options to trade as you agreed or I am reporting you
-=Schutzenbauer=-: thats all
-=Schutzenbauer=-: you dont have to waste your time writing to me if you are not planning to trade
-=Schutzenbauer=-: you might as well just go now so I can finish the report and send it out, I dont like to waste my time for nothing
-=Schutzenbauer=-: you will then worry with steam and steamrep about it and see what they think about all of this
-=Schutzenbauer=-: I have a nice long chat log to show them
AlcatorSK: Me too. Report filed.
AlcatorSK: Have a nice day.
-=Schutzenbauer=-: you too bye

AlcatorSK is now Offline.
[ /code ]

So, let's examine the situation thoroughly, shall we?

"I told the person then I will post the key into the chat, he/she then opened the trade window and entered 3 games into seperate windows but didn't click READY, I pasted the first key for Majesty2 into the chat window and the scammer then broke off the trade."

No, you didn't. You managed to write "I post keys here" at the same time when I used the "Invite to Trade" function. There was never any acknowledgment from my side that we're talking about trading Game Keys. The whole discussion was about trading GAMES:

Code:

-=Schutzenbauer=-: I will post key here
You have accepted the trade request from AlcatorSK.

Now, since we are talking about STEAM TRADING, let's visit the only source of law on this matter -- the official SteamPowered.com forums, shall we? There, we will find the following snippet:

Code:

Do not conduct trades outside of the Steam Trade Window. This means do not trade items for cash, gift cards, CD-keys, etc. Stay inside of the Steam Trade Window.

(Source: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2102640)

So, what do we have here?

1. We have a user, AlcatorSK, who is following the official guidelines, who initiated the Trade window, who started pasting games into the trade window.
2. And, on the other side of the table, we have another user, Schutzenbauer, who goes to a SteamGifts page, sees a giveaway, wants to get in front of everyone else in the queue, contacts the giveaway creator and asks for a trade using the Steam Chat Client. And when it is time to put his actions where his mouth is, instead of moving items from INVENTORY to the TRADING window, starts threatening with reporting, and starts accusing his trading counterpart of scam/theft whatever.
3. This other user, Schutzenbauer, then goes to SteamRep.com and copies the chat log in text form including the damn CD key in plain text for everyone to see (!! Warning: It may be unadvisable to use that CD key, whoever you are, because if the transaction which purchased that key is disputed via a chargeback or other means, whoever has the game on their account will get into trouble.).

My advice, Schutzenbauer, is this:
1. Add the game using the CD key to your Inventory. Even when in the inventory, you can still trade it, so there is no real difference between having a CD key stored on your computer and having the game in your account; the difference is entirely with recipients, because then there's a track of who registered the key and who gave it to whom. Customer protection, shall we say? Or is there a reason you are afraid of leaving a trail that leads to you?
2. Never EVER trade using simple chat. As a pre-emptive defense, I've reported our little exchange to Steam support, so there is some possibility you have the Eye of Sauron fixed upon you now, and your actions may be under greater scrutiny.

Have a nice evening, everyone.

... and just in case Schutzenbauer decides to edit his post in reaction to my post, here is the original report in its entirety, with the CD-key redacted:

Just an FYI, posts can't be edited after 2 minutes or so
Also hid key and added notes

Hidden Content:

**Hidden Content: Content of this hidden block can only be seen by members of (usergroups: Administrative, Moderating).**

Yep, found out later.
Thanks for the edit. Have a nice evening, gencobra.

1. AlcatorSK agreed to conduct a trade
2. AlcatorSK decided to trade despite the fact that I have listed that I am going to post a key before he/she opened the trade window. I did this on purpose to prevent possible problems since the user didn't ask me if the games was a key or not. Chat window is clearly visible before the trade window opens.
3. AlcatorSK did not show interest in even trying to activate the key to test if it is working properly but simply broke off the trade

I have read many stories about people trying to steal keys (have multiple accounts, etc) and trying to act like they are all good or they never knew they were doing anything wrong, or as in this case (of my god its a key so I don't want to activate it, sorry no game for you, .... now I have a key and I didn't have to give them anything for it) and to me this is just another one of those stories over again. You can make up any story you like, what matters is the evidence and the structure of the evidence is quiet simple:
a) AlcatorSK agreed to the after we agreed to a deal and he/she was informed that the first game will be a key
b) I went first and send AlcatorSK my game code
c) AlcatorSK broke off the trade and blocked any reasonable communication by creating a chaotic story
d) I lost a game (exposing a key to a stranger is same as giving away a game), and didn't get anything in return

By the way, if this scam doesn't go on AlcatorSK steamrep.com report then all the scammers out there will know what to do.

Why am I even wasting time on you?

You wrote the thing about keys at approx. the same time when I clicked on the "Invite to Trade". The info about sending a key did not occur anywhere before. I would expect that information - since it's clearly against official steam instructions/policies! - to be voiced at the very beginning of the discussion, not AFTER we agreed what will be traded.

Once again: Launch Steam, activate your key and add the game(s) to your inventory. That's the only way for you to make sure nobody does it instead of you. Stop acusing me of stealing your game, it did not happen. I am not risking my account by registering some CD key which comes from I don't know where.

bla bla bla bla scammer

I believe I've said everything there is to be said about the matter. Whoever is in charge of reviewing this may proceed.

Checked that Majesty 2 key today, it still worked so it hasn't been used by AlcatorSK. Just to let the admins know.

Finally a clever move, Schutzenbauer. Now please proceed to the Steam forums and self-study official instructions on how to trade, maybe then you will not be surprised by cautious trading partners backing out of seemingly agreed trades :-(

An apology would be in order, but it's not required.

@Mods: Could we get this dismissed as unsubstantiated?

Administrators, please note that I have posted the steamrep report right after the trade and just because AlcatorSK didn't use the key doesn't mean he didn't plan on doing so afterwards. He was warned that he will be reported and might have just been waiting to see it I will truly report him. He should still be marked as he is no different from many of the other scammers operating out there. Thank you.

(Source: http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/read-before-posting-steamrep-investigative-policy.230/)

Once again, Schutzenbauer:

1. STEAM makes it absolutely clear that ALL TRADING should occur within the TRADE interface. You posted - without any prior acknowledgment from my side! - a game key into a CHAT WINDOW. A chat window is NOT the Trade interface.
2. Even SteamRep makes it clear that what you did is NOT advised. Look at the explanation: "It is usually impossible to verify the key or activation code in question", which is why "trades of this nature are outside of SteamRep investigative policy."

Now, I am warning you: if you do not tone down your accusations against me, I will file a scam complaint on Steam itself against you. You are logged into SteamRep with your Steam account, so it will be possible for them to read the insults you are putting here, and take action against you. So far, you have:

1. Threatened me despite you violating Steam trading policy.
2. Accused me multiple times of being a scammer.
3. Shown no understanding that your approach was the wrong one.
4. Lied about how the discussion went:

(which is an utter lie -- you posted the thing about the key at the same time that I clicked on the Trade, which opens a new window and hid the chat window; I had no time to react to that, before you posted the key. I never acknowledged that I would accept an activation key from you -- the whole discussion was only about GAMES).


I have traded with several people, ALWAYS int the trade window, always to mutual satisfaction. It is YOUR problem that you are hoarding activation codes with your FRIEND (!!!) in a text file somewhere and are copying them into a chat window -- I never asked you for it, and if you'd actually say anywhere that that's how you envision it, I'd told you to get lost right at the beginning.

To top if off, you're the cheater who saw the giveaway I organized and wanted to get an extra advantage, so you contacted me and wanted to get a copy of the game via trade instead. That is pathetic and I should have told you to enter the giveaway just like everyone else.

There are several things wrong with this report.

1. Threatening that "all scammers will know what to do" if this person isn't marked. We mark on EVIDENCE. If there is not sufficient evidence, we cannot apply a mark. I have been doing online community management for over 12 years and I assure you that if someone wants to scam, they are going to do it and they aren't going to wade through 1200 scam reports to find techniques.
2. Constant harassment and arguing. Though this can be useful in discovering the motivations behind both the reporter and the person reported.
3. Instant assumption of intent to scam when there isn't any clear intent whatsoever. I have processed over 1000 game scams and if he wanted to scam you, that code would be activated I assure you. There is no scam here- just a misunderstanding.

Marking this report as rejected as there is no scam here. I also advise Schutzenbauer to not only refrain from doing CD key trades as they are risky, but to be much more careful about jumping to conclusions. However, I do thank you for the report.