1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Donating to Scammers

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by Eoj Nawoh, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

    Messages:
    1,445
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:0:40091868
    I just wanted to ask, if a scammer owns a server then people start donating to it. Does that constitute a caution/mark?

    Because I'm sure if you trade him directly yes. But what if I trade Admin A knowing it's going the scammer?


    Reason I ask: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TicTocTicToc
  2. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,651
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    I would presume that most people who donated would not have a clue Wazman is marked, I am guessing most people who presume a set of servers would not be run by a tagged player (whoever expects the Spanish inquisition eh?).

    What boggles the mind is how anyone would Admin on a network run by a tagged player. I suppose most players would be the average 2Fort kiddy, and thus no one would have a clue how to check on SR anyway.
  3. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

    Messages:
    1,445
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:0:40091868
    That brings another point, admin'ing for a Scammer and helping him get Donations and etc, does that constitute helping scammers?
  4. ForteSP

    ForteSP New User

    Messages:
    877
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:32783182
    Hmmm, I remember, Wazman had a community in the past called "XIII gaming" or something that got a lot of donations, yet none of those people were ever marked or cautioned, I wouldn't say it's safe to donate, but it's grey area for sure.

    Let met give two situations



    1)If I donate with money I am not buying tf2 items from a marked scammer. I am just buying a service. Which to me would logically not warrant a caution/scammer tag. If I buy an item off of ebay from someone who is a marked scammer on Steam, the two are obviously unrelated. In this case, I personally feel like it would be the same thing, even if I am donating $$$ to a trade server, I am not buying hats or whatever from the scammer.

    2)If I gave with items I am "trading with a scammer" which is breaking the rules. The whole point of banning trading with scammers is to prevent them from making profit. That said, like I explained above, why would I be punished for trading items when I wouldn't be for giving cash. If they are getting items, that is actually LESS profit then if I gave straight cash. Here I am breaking a rule, by doing something less severe than something that I felt WASN'T breaking a rule. That said the situation presented in #1 would be breaking SR rules since you are directly aiding a scammers profit.



    My opinion.... I think if you donate with cash you aren't breaking SR rules. If you donate with items you ARE breaking rules. Since paying with cash is worse than paying with items, the not breaking rules is voided, either way it's breaking rules, which doesn't make sense to me.


    These are just my thoughts, obviously, an admin would have to rule here. Personally I would, obviously avoid doing either of these things, as there is no point in creating a hassle.

    I also just want to note these were scenarios that I ran through my head and decided to write down as a response.
  5. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,651
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    Well I guess that would be an issue for SR Staff to get their head around, and it seems to me it is potentially full of subtle complexity :)

    Certainly there is little or nothing that anyone can do about a fully tagged player deciding they want to run a server or network, if SR Plugin isn't loaded they are untouchable and of course Valve does not concern itself directly with SR tags.

    Perhaps I have a lofty view of Admins, and perhaps for that reason I find it hard to imagine anyone would associate themselves with a tagged player in this way. I too am interested to know SR's position, and it seems to me not an easy decision. Either they put it in the "too hard basket" or decide that such a relationship with a tagged player warrants action if the relationship is not discontinued it seems to me. A clever general does not engage in a battle unless he knows the outcome, and a demand that a bunch of Admins disassociate themselves from server(s) or face tags means war :)

    I won't bother to air my personal views, most people who know me would be in no doubt what I would do, but I am keen to hear how SR would a situation like this.
  6. AcesGamer

    AcesGamer User

    Messages:
    1,141
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:19877328
    The guy himself isn't marked for straight up scamming, he was marked for a previous incident no longer reproducible, so I highly doubt that donating to him/his community would encourage illicit activity. A little common sense when approaching these situations doesn't hurt.

    That being said, I still wouldn't recommend it.
  7. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,651
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    Oh I doubt any user is is peril, however his Admins.... not so sure.
  8. Eoj Nawoh

    Eoj Nawoh Retired Staff Partner Community

    Messages:
    1,445
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:0:40091868
    True but not many make distinctions, they just see the mark.
  9. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,651
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    No need to make any distinction in practice, a scammer tag is a scammer tag. I mean it is hard to be half pregnant.
  10. Burnt Waflles

    Burnt Waflles New User

    Messages:
    66
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:32594014
    I was a Head Admin for GHS before I ever knew of steamrep (about a year of being in the GHS community). I had no idea what any of it was, and had no idea that the founder I was an admin for was marked on a website somewhere (which is no longer the case).

    I have a friend with a 40+ bud backpack that he has acquired through a lot of trading, and he had never heard of steamrep until i told him I applied for a community banner.

    Point is, I don't think any of the admins should be considered to be in any form of "peril" until there is evidence available that they are aware of steamrep's operations, and the fact that the owner is marked. The length of time you have played tf2, or your personal tf2 experience, has no implication that you should know what steamrep is. To imply that they don't know what SR is, simply because they aren't experienced is completely ridiculous.
  11. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,651
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    Of course not, however if said Admins were warned of consequences of such an association, then action could legitimately follow. It would come down to Steamrep's view on this.
  12. Burnt Waflles

    Burnt Waflles New User

    Messages:
    66
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:32594014
    I agree with that. If they were warned or informed in some way, and Steamrep was to take some action, then marking admins would be more acceptable. But this would be a controversial topic, especially depending on the nature of the owners offense. And steamrep prefers to shy away from such controversies.

    Either way, in the past, admins underneath "scammer" owners have not been marked, and that is probably the way it will continue to be. I imagine admins would only get marked if there was a case where the admins deliberately used their position to actively help the owner with his "scamings"
  13. VenGanZa

    VenGanZa User

    Messages:
    1,651
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:32312479
    I would contend that any help Admins provided should be viewed as aiding and facilitating a marked player, especially if this includes donation collections.

    Honestly above and beyond all the rationalizing, I have always believed that an Admin role is a position of trust and those who hold such positions should be held to high standards. Associating closely with a marked player is going beyond the pail in my view, at least once such an Admin is aware of this.

    How SR views this is up to them of course.
  14. Burnt Waflles

    Burnt Waflles New User

    Messages:
    66
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:32594014
    I agree for the most part. However, I am a bit biased considering I fell under this category at one point. When I did eventually learn of the situation, it did not hinder my opinion or standing, based on loyalty and the fact that the tag was issued for reasons that do not follow standards set by steam. I felt the tag was invalid because of this.

    Although there are less complex situations where the owner was marked for a scam outright. In such a case, I would agree that, upon warning, the admins receipt of a mark would be justified.
  15. Wazman

    Wazman New User

    Messages:
    5
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:56012453
    Oh no, wazman's the big bad wolf.
    Here's the thing steam rep, there is a way for people to check a user's steam rep on my servers. And I am very open to my admins and members about my own tag, if that isn't enough, today I posted on my steam profile that i'm marked> http://steamcommunity.com/id/WazGrandClock/
    I also love how you guys tried contacting my admins to warn them about me, they've known me for quite some time, and I love how you think they would all of a sudden stop trusting me and leave me for a mark on some website that is hosted from some noob php scripter,
    I bet this site is being hosted on some small managed vps running on windows.....
    The concept of steam rep is good, but your admins suck.
    Anyways, my admins have known me for a long time, and also knew about my mark on rep, they know i'm not a bad person, and that i'm a very trustworthy person. Regardless of the mark.

    Aces... you even know that i'm not marked for scamming someone straight up, and not recommending people to donate to me is understandable, I know how you feel about your own rep, and your position as a steamrep admin. It's fine, I don't care ;D
    (By the way, I have several donators enjoying their perks on the servers)
    Anyways....
    I'll continue hosting my servers, which are very popular btw, and have that steam rep mark posted on my profile, so you guys can't be all like, "Wazman is such a liar, he lies to his members."
    I know for a fact my members will still respect me.

    Sincerely,
    Wazman
  16. AcesGamer

    AcesGamer User

    Messages:
    1,141
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:19877328
    Huh? I am not, nor have ever been a steamrep admin.
  17. Wazman

    Wazman New User

    Messages:
    5
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:56012453
    You're able to hand out af2 marks. I thought you were in some way affiliated in steam rep admining.
    Sorry for the false accusation.
  18. Scooty Puff Jr.

    Scooty Puff Jr. New User

    Messages:
    366
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:34050552
    Every community affiliated with SR has the power (with proper evidence) and with Ace being the community owner, he would request marks on users (he can't add them himself) and a SR admin would apply if applicable.
    Eoj Nawoh likes this.
  19. Wazman

    Wazman New User

    Messages:
    5
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:56012453
    [​IMG]
  20. DataStorm

    DataStorm Retired Staff

    Messages:
    3,448
    real pro opinion, always that smart? lets tick the boxes...

    - Who exactly are you referring to as being a "noob php scripter" ? Diego? Mattie?
    Diego build the original site, Mattie has been maintaining and improving it for a long time now. While Mattie is better at it, I'd still not call Diego a "noob".

    - VPS / Windows server...
    Your bet is completely off, probably cos you are the actual noob in finding out what kind of server somebody runs.

    - "admins suck"..
    I'll refer to my sarcasm first line of this post.

    - Aces status:
    In the past he was a Community Associate Admin, and Mod here on the forum, but he was never a SR Admin. Back then he could request AF2 Scammer tags on people which would be tagged by a SR admin. Nowadays those roles are no longer, and AF2 isn't even affiliated anymore. Shows again you don't know what you talk about.
    Melkor, Backseatsman and Eoj Nawoh like this.