Expectations for Partner Communities and the Topic of MannCoTrading

I'm sure everyone here knows both who I am and that I am one who has no second thoughts about sharing his opinions when it comes to this community.

I now come here requesting more information about what exactly partners need to do. Cause frankly... I look at many of them and some of them are incredibly inactive. Take MannCoTrading for example, they do absolutely nothing, their owner hasn't used the site in two months...


They have 3 admins who have signed in (out of 15) in the past month.



They also have pending scammer reports from 2013.

They do absolutely nothing to benefit anyone who goes to them for assistance and offer nothing to the SteamREP community at large.

Regarding my own appeal, I have contacted multiple admins on MannCoTrading on MULTIPLE occasions over the past 3 months, including owner Secret Taco (who I PMd at least 4 times over this 3 month period while he was online) only to be ignored EVERY SINGLE TIME. Here are some of those PMs from my attempt to ask the admins about one week ago.


I spoke to Pretender about this and he said that he doesn't even understand how MCT can be so far behind on work and ignore me GIVEN THAT THEY DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.



This is just MannCoTrading. There are other partner communities as well who are equally as bad if not worse. Just because MannCoTrading has been a partner since what??? 2011?2012? (who cares) doesn't mean they deserve to be held to lower standards. Communities like FoG are easily handling 50 reports a week while this community is a shining example of one who fails to handle 50 per year.


That said, why are we even allowing these partner communities to get their name advertised on SteamREPs front page when they do absolutely nothing to help our community in return? Additionally their sourcebans have been down for nearly a year now. So in addition to having a community that doesn't work, their server/sourcebans are non-functioning.

What expectations do we as a community set out for Partners? Because they must be ABSURDLY LOW for MCT to be passing them.

For those who don't know, my PERSONAL situation is as follows. In October 2012, I committed a sub 10 bud trade with a marked scammer and now nearly 1,000 days later, MannCoTrading refuses to remove the caution (in spite of my absurd amounts of activism, aiding users in this community, submitting reports and recovering items that were scammed). Other communities however are granting appeals for users who have committed 3+ trades with scammers for values >50 buds. Not saying more than that as it's irrelevant and admins should universally know the whole situation as I've talked to @Xenophobia and @Mattie! on many occasions.

You out of all people should know

Did you know they were a scammer?

This thread is about MCT and partner communities not doing their jobs and failing to abide by expectations. My situation is just an example of how MCT dropped the ball.

PS:

Stop commenting, I don't want you here. I don't like you, you're a homophobic, transphobic asshat and I won't reply to anything you say on this thread going forward.

I appreciate the thought, but please, I don't want this thread to have shitposts.

You're right, I apologized to Pretender for using his chat. The other 3 "conversations" I used in the same way that I'd use chats to submit a scammer report, it's not like they replied to me anyway, nor would they have answered me if I had asked to use the chats to begin with.

http://manncotrading.com/index.php/board,12.0.html You can see 4 pages of pending appeals. Additionally MCT refuses to grant appeals to anyone with UTC/UHC tags, even if no evidence of any wrong doing still exists.

Other examples of communities who do absolutely nothing. The obvious one being Dota2Traders...

http://www.dota2traders.com/ DOESN'T EVEN EXIST anymore and that's their community website.

I'm just going to put this out there.

1) Owner and Admin Inactivity: I understand that you should be active own community and so should your admins as they wanted that position & they created it. But at the same time people have lives dude. It's not like it's a job that can support a living, most community donations usually only just cover maintance costs. I run my own game servers and I barely have any time to finish coding my new website. Not havng a go at you but like me and you they have lives. More than likely they are busy with IRL stuffs.

2) Pending Reports appeals: I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure steamrep does have some old ones still open. So yeah. Maybe there just isn't enough information to convict them or enough to archive it.

3) "This is just MannCoTrading. There are other partner communities as well who are equally as bad if not worse. Just because MannCoTrading has been a partner since what??? 2011?2012? (who cares) doesn't mean they deserve to be held to lower standards." - Agreed.

4) Unfortunately steamrep doesn't tell these communities how to run them and what not, they don't necessarily to an extent care if this person gets banned or cautioned on whatever community etc. Which is bad because I feel as though it should be fully overlooked if a user has an issue sorta like a big daddy kind-of-thing.

5) Don't go insulting people on this post regardless SR will just delete comments or archive your post.

In summary dude, There's not a lot you can do about it unfortunately. Simply don't use the communities or make your own. Problem is the remaining good communities piggy back off each other for a ban database. It's sad but it's the truth.

With the UHC/UTC tags, Penguin, a current SR mod and Reddit MM who used to work at MCT stated this before in regards to the appeal for UTC

after that, MCT gave 2 MONTHS for an individual with a UTC tag to appeal

The most common reason one wants to have their ban lifted is for their own benefit (using secure websites such as TF2OP or CSGOLounge) and have zero remorse for that they actually did, not caring about who they hurt / could have hurt. Even with no evidence, appeals won't be lifted because at one point in time, there was evidence but because said individual(s) took so long to appeal, it is now their responsibility to provide the evidence. That is the most common question asked, "Where's the evidence?" which alone makes it seem like we have to lift it if there is none and the user can pull off the same thing again.

Furthermore, MCT does not have an SCA (although requested +/- 1 year ago) as we had several people retiring after Canadian left MCT, three of those who retired were MCT's SCAs so MCT has none now. I know longer volunteer at MCT for my own reasons but I still love and respect the community and the staff of said community.

SR admins have lives and still sign into steamrep. They literally haven't logged onto the site in months. They have no desire to better their community or even keep it up.

To your point about pending reports/appeals, SR and MCT are incomparable. SR has thousands of reports. MCT has literally sub 20 reports and they can't even handle that many, some of which are from 2013. Their appeals are only backlogged because they have no admins and don't do any work. SR gets more reports and appeals then they can handle. MCT doesn't handle reports OR appeals, yet still gets more in...ocassionally

Easy there cowboy, you sure you want to make such a bold claim? Rhetorical question, you don't. Why? Because you're wrong. Please don't spew ignorant statements fueled by your own frustrations.


No one can argue the inactivity at this point, I'll agree with that. That was one of the reasons I left, but it was a small reason, as I had too many real world issues going on and couldn't devote much time. So I felt it was wrong to hold the title of admin and took my leave.


As far as the UTC/UHC tags, I was there when those communities were made, saw a lot of what went on and had the pleasure of admining some during the UTC days. Scamming and deception formed in high levels since trading was so new and no one had the plethora of anti-scam knowledge resources like we have now. Reports were handled well from my perspective and justice was served. The fact those communities don't exist anymore doesn't exonerate those people that earned their tags. Bans weren't just handed out like they were nothing. Evidence was gathered the same way and was looked at by multiple admins.

That's a very poor way to think about it and if you truly believe it, then I hope you guys reconsider. Most of these people with UHC/UTC tags who are appealing have no pending reports, nor have any provable offenses (apart from the apparent ones that no longer are supported and are 3 years old). The fact they haven't been reported or done anything in the past 3 years would support that most of them have changed, in my opinion. Guess what? If they scam again, they will get retagged by SR.

What about the ones who ran from say a 3 ref crab and want to repay, but can't. They will be permanently tagged. It's a bit depressing.

Another thing I also did notice with dota2traders, http://steamrep.com/group.php?id=3 People are listed on steamrep as dota2trader admins but the community is no longer alive. But not entirely relevant.

Fair enough.

As Mike just stated, yes there has been a lot of inactivity. However also keep in mind that many of the admins listed aren't even MCT admins anymore and many admins haven't had the time to actually stay active so they've retired, the list has simply not been updated. As for the scam reports, like Prodigy stated, "there just isn't enough information to convict them or enough to archive it". Maybe we should have closed a few of them for not having enough information but we left them open at the time hoping the users who posted the reports would supply more information.

Then it is up to the admins and @Secret T☆co [MCA] to get replacement admins and keep your site up to date. Also reports like this http://manncotrading.com/index.php/topic,3403.0.html and http://manncotrading.com/index.php/topic,3335.0.html I'd hardly say were left open for users to supply more information... 2 years under investigation? I am aware penguin is no longer with MCT but that's ridiculous. There are a few other reports on this level, as well. I am only talking about reports here, but I can cite appeals that were posted on and just left to die, completely ignored as well (maybe not for 2 years but for still longer than they should have been). My own situation would be a good example. There are others as well.

If the list of admins is not up to date, that should have been told to us to handle the admin tags.

Three year sure is enough support, heck, don't you think 1 year is probably enough support? Guess what would likely have happened had any UHC/UTC scammer / cautioon tagged user appealed in a year? They would have been declined with supporting evidence or appeal would have been granted, also with supporting evidence, key word, evidence. Again, and there may be mixed feelings about this, but I believe and I think MCT believes so as well, just because evidence doesn't exist doesn't mean we should lift the tag because at one point there was evidence. It's absolutely possible to lift the tag and tag again with zero chance of appeal should the user scam / attempt to scam again but that's only if they scam / attempt to scam again, so any user(s) could get scammed again and that's something that shouldn't be happening. At least with a scammer tag, users will be more cautious when proceeding to trade with said user (if they do, which is a bad idea on it's own and is not recommended).

I respect SR and everything it stands for, MCT is no longer my business but wouldn't it make it way easier for SR to just appoint SCA to one of MCT's admins as opposed to an SR member having too go through every case themselves, them having SR to deal with should be enough weight on SR's shoulders, dealing with another community shouldn't be a thing.

Appointing a SCA is just as slow as any community application.

And as the marking or unmarking of a admin is easily done by a full admin, its done within minutes.

On that note, I talked with @Tony Reigns in the mean time, he wasn't aware of some of the updates yet, and the admin list on the MCT forums isn't correct atm. He said he'd contact Secret about it, and I've provided 'm a list of the current tagged MCT Admins on SR. So it will be handled.

Key word is LIKELY. What if the wrong user was tagged. What if there was an mistake and a totally innocent user was marked, the user didn't know until now... To bad for that user, I guess! Not likely he can prove he's innocent, because the "evidence" no longer exists.

Additionally what you have described is a "CAUTION" tag. not a "BANNED/SCAMMER" tag. Users take caution with CAUTION tag.

So Secret Taco, owner of MCT, does not even know who his own admins are? How can such a community exist.