1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Announcement Policy Change: Trades with Scammer Policy, End of Life

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by Mattie!, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Rosalina

    Rosalina New User

    Messages:
    81
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:64197455
    Banning bigmac187 from steamrep forums is the real victory here, not the policy changes. I also approve of giving him his own thread. That's actually what I PMd to lava jokingly last night. "Can we get a Best of Bigmac thread." My amusement quota for the day has been satisfied.
    Enstage and Roudydogg1 like this.
  2. Foxyfluff

    Foxyfluff New User

    Messages:
    8
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:21258651
    It's great to see this change. I feel it's a good thing some of our high profile traders can now get their tags removed and hopefully have their positive sentiments about SteamRep restored.

    I realize a lot of details have been requested already, but I kind of lost track due to the amount of posts previously present. Here goes:

    From what I understand extensive trading (or partnering) with scammers remains punishable.
    Will the amount of items purchased and trades conducted be the only defining factors to determine whether or not a case of this will be looked at? Or could a single exceptionally valuable item being purchased be given attention as well?

    Quick hypothetical scenario:
    A Burning Flames Team Captain is scammed and sold by a marked account for 25% of the price. Is the buyer (not green tagged) potentially accountable or free to enjoy his bargain?

    I hope that in the near future we will also see some policy changes introducing some form of alternative expirable SteamRep tag(s). The kind that would automatically downgrade to caution after a set amount of time and (optionally) even get removed entirely after a just amount of time tag without any new offenses. All this according to the nature, count and severity of the offense. This would probably reduce the amount of appeals as well.
  3. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

    Messages:
    11,992
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:0:89705646
    A single trade won't be really looked at. It really will need multiple trades.

    We've looked at expiring tags years ago, discussed it very long and while feasible to implement, it still would probably in procedure require a appeal for us to implement etc, and that won't differ from what we already had. Along with the appeal backlog we had/have, we didn't see sense in implementing it when such can in practice just be applied at handling the appeal.

    You may make the argument that that could be set by the admin handling the report. There where arguments against such as well (at time of handling the report, other reports may not yet be in, not been looked at fully, etc.) At an appeal often more information is known regarding the account, the appeal admins are always the most experienced admins that will be able to review everything. The first ban is just regarding 1 report. The appeal is regarding EVERYTHING (its why appeals take a lot more time etc). Hence implementing a check of some sort to get that implemented meant a full appeal. Its not a feature that would lower our workload, or add anything. If the appeal admin believes it should be lowered, the appeal already took enough time to do it directly.

    Outside of that, there was opposition against such by partner and SR admins to auto-downgrade bans. An argument made a lot of times, is that a scammer that will steal a scrap (which is like less then 0.01 cent), can't be really trusted with anything worth (a lot) more... And a lot of other arguments have been made over time.

    We do discuss ideas internally. Maybe we should make a FAQ / Synopsis thread with such ideas that we discuss publicly, but truth is... those topics stay open for discussion internally, and some discussions are after months or some even after years restarted again with new arguments. Sometimes this means a change. This policy change is a reflection of such that we where talking about for over a year (since early December 2014, due a Gen. Discussion reply regarding the lower bounds of trading with scammers being outdated...)
    Foxyfluff and You Are The One like this.
  4. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,582
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    This is not correct. Partnering (on the basis of more than trading with scammers), fencing, or brokering are taggable.
    Basically, trade history alone would not be sufficient, regardless of value. Single trades with scammers won't be taggable, no matter what the price. I'd recommend reading the following replies:
    Can't really get into specifics, but if he didn't actively seek out that 25% bargain to try and work with scammers for such a deal, probably not. It would have to be a clear cut case of fencing, which buying things you know are stolen for 25% of price does admittedly tend towards fencing. Community admins won't be looking at individual trades though; they'll be looking for trends and patterns. If that kind of deal happens repeatedly, and there's other evidence pointing to brokering or working with scammers, you could wind up with a tag.
    This might come up again in the future, but for the time being it's not compatible with how we do things. The tag documents a scam that took place, for the purpose of warning the community that person has scammed. If several years pass, the community still has a right to know about it; it's not there to punish, scare, avenge, or teach a lesson, but to warn everyone else of someone with a history of scamming.
  5. Foxyfluff

    Foxyfluff New User

    Messages:
    8
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:21258651
    Thank you for pointing that out. I suspected an expiring tag system wouldn't be ideal but I hadn't thought of it that way. Food for thought.

    That's kind of what I intended to say in more vague terms. No sweat, though.

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    I understand that is it's true purpose.

    SteamRep's popularity amoung the trading community combined with the e-social stigma surrounding scammers in it does still cause the tag to punish (restricted from a large portion of trading abilities), scare (initially), avenge (victims) and teach a lesson (to those who care).

    Call it collateral damage, if you will.
  6. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

    Messages:
    11,992
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:0:89705646
    Oh, the joy of people understanding what you tell....
  7. DivineChibi

    DivineChibi New User

    Messages:
    3
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:62355559
    So there is a person here who is wanting to trade me but they are banned on BP, they are offering a nice deal but will i get marked or anything for accepting?
  8. Tio José das Vacas

    Tio José das Vacas SteamRep Admin Partner Community Donator - Tier V

    Messages:
    5,810
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:32194479
    I would suggest reading the thread. You should not trade with him if he's a marked scammer but you can, and you will not get marked.
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  9. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,582
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    We don't issue tags for trading with marked scammers. Just bear in mind a few other trading sites might still ban you for it.
  10. Guns

    Guns Unconfirmed Reports

    Messages:
    6
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:0:20312052
    I was ban the 11 Novemeber 2015 on outpost tf2 for trading a golden pan with someone have 3 pending report ( 2 for trading with scammer and 1 for ''scam'' 1 unusual hat ''

    Here my ban on outpost tf2 : http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/76561198000889832

    The problem with the unusual headsplitter is solved and this guy scam anybody.

    I make appeal on outpost tf2 for that and told this guy is not mark as scammer and scam anybody but i m still ban on outpost tf2 . I never traded with scammer in 8 years on steam and Thoughsox still continue to think i take part of scammer organisation or sommething like that . Someone can help me ?

    The biggest problem is :

    This guy tarded my items after with some other guy and they have received nothing .

    My deep cover : http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/27417920

    My brotherood in arm : http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/76561198087962998 ( no mention on ban)

    ....

    and it s the first time in 8 years i traded with guy have ' pending ' report , he dont have scamemr tag , i make any profit with that deal and i have added like 4 other seller for the pan just wait the answers .


    Someone can help me :(
  11. Horse

    Horse Administrator SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    67,002
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:34690691
    @Guns SteamRep has no control over what outpost or any other community bans you for...that is between you and them.

    Hidden Content:
    **Hidden Content: Content of this hidden block can only be seen by members of (usergroups: Administrative, Moderating).**
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2016
  12. Goldensliv

    Goldensliv New User

    Messages:
    1
    Steam:
    STEAM_0:1:100704081
    So basically I can now trade with scammers who have ""turned over a new leaf""?
  13. Lava

    Lava Public Relations SteamRep Admin

    Messages:
    5,582
    SteamRep Admin:
    STEAM_0:1:46187366
    I don't recommend it - scammers will say anything if they think it'll gain your trust - but as long as you're not systematically working with the scammer it won't affect your own SteamRep status.