SCAMMER PWNED

Thanks for answering the questions

You said you acted like a mediator and they both came to an agreement, the thing is, the scammer didn't agreed to return the stolen items for good deed or because he felt bad about scamming the victim, he returned the items because he had no choice already, either he ran away 2 Buds 1 Bill's short or he agreed to your ultimatum. I mean, what if he don't take the deal and he reports you after you took the items? Doesn't matter if you returned them to the original owner, you scammed him and that's it, whatever the reasoning you have for it. If you goal was to help the victim trading him something for free would been a better course of action in the first place.

Going all "Robin Hood" in this kind of economy helps no one, in my opinion. But in the end is up to the admins.

Bort,

I ask you, have you ever been scammed? I lost : $66, $24, $26 $29 on 4 paypal transactions. not including the 60 keys and 50 ref the other 2 scams when i was a noob. You may not like my methods but if you saw the statistics (no one speaks of it in the veteran traders) as to how OFTEN scammers have started taking control of this economy and how OFTEN we get scam attempts you would be disgusted. Trust me when I say, I did this in the most formal way possible. What would have made me ANY better if I would have paid the guy for 2 buds and turned my head the other way, or just blocked him and let him try scamming someone else? Nothing would have happened other then another innocent person getting victimized. Enough is enough and if this community cant stand by my actions or at least not "punish" me for my actions then I lost hope in this community and bid you all farewell. I have no problem retiring from trading. I have no opsession for it. I dont care for the items in my pack and if I just delete them and leave this entire community. I only wanted to do one good deed for one person and if my good deed gets punished then I know that karma is a b✿✿✿✿ and someone who "punished" me will get their 10 fold back.

All I have to say about that. So judge me if you will but remember that if I didnt do it you couldve been the next person out $60 and scratching your head and have the pit in your stomache feeling that you got cheated. When that day comes, remember my actions and rethink your words you just posted.

I just wish to say that I would not do what you just did manily because what do you achieve by stooping to a scammers level?
Sure, you may feel proud but in the way that it is shown, you look no better than the scammers for what you did.

If you honsetly felt that was the right thing to do then I got nothing against you for that.
But it was the admin who made the choice to ban you from SOP and well, rules are rules.
(No offense)

Scamming to help scam victims is just a mess, your intentions were good but your method was dumb. You're still a scammer, and even if SteamRep supported vigilantism, you're breaking the "don't trade with scammers" rule.
This is coming from someone who was approached by an alt of the person who scammed my Headcase (when they were quicksold for $90) who, for all intents and purposes, intended to scam it back to by impersonating one of the mark's friends, who apparently had a debt from the owner at that time (I called him out before I could get the full story :/).

I'm torn here...

You SCAMMED a scammer - but you meant well...

It's kind of like the law and vigilantes.

I go around murdering murderers who got off due to mistrials - Am I in the right or the wrong here?

Most would say the wrong - why is this situation any different?

"Who watches the watchmen"

everyone posts how i scammed a scammer but lets break this down: person gets reported for being a scammer by someone and hence gets the label to begin with. the person who posted the report came to a concluded resolution with the scammer and has agreed all is well. hence i never scammed him. if i kept his 2.5 buds and told him off i would be scamming a scammer but i didnt. i even returned the bills to him that had nothing to do with the scam. does that make me a scammer? no, but again, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

like i said if i get banned for this , i will not cry.i only pray for the rest of this community and what it means to have someone like me banned. its a shame and i can easily accept your "decision". its up to you how you want to judge me. I just hope that you realize that if i didnt take a stand here this is not shown to everyone and if people dont see this is needed then this community is lost to corruption a long time ago and i walk away.

Yeah, I have been scammed for money, I did all what I was able to do and in the end I got my money back and I agree, is a terrible feeling knowing you end with no money and no items that you may worked hard to get, but I also know is a risk when I'm dealing outside Valve jurisdiction.

Also, I'm not judging you, like I said, you had your reasons for what you did and I respect them, whatever if I agree with them or not is a different matter. This market has enough problems with scammers, dupers, sharkers, etc, now we have to deal with vigilantes in a environment that is actually none but Valve responsibility to safe guard correctly (do the Blizzard and add PayPal transactions to the trade system).

Scamming a scammer should be legal as long as you return the item/s back to the owner and the owner has enough valid proof that he got scammed out of that particular item by that particular guy. Scammers are having a laugh at steamrep because no matter what we do they are never really punished.
They can easily sell their stuff to someone for money as there are always people who wont care if something is stolen as long as the price is right. If scamming scammers would become legal it would make them paranoid and maybe discourage some of them from doing it. Vigilantism in the real world is illegal because authorities exist that enforce rules.
If you get robbed you call the police and once the robber is catched go to court. You get a compensation and the robber suffers consequences he cant easily escape as prison and monetary penalty.

But we as the community cant really enforce any laws. We can only ban their account, ban them from trading forums, servers and sites and mark them. And that's it. Many people have no idea what steamrep is. Thats why there are so many tagged scammers around who proceed to scam people. Since valve doesn't really care most of the time they are still able to trade and sell their items away. If they get caught they will just make a new account and scam again.

Scamming is incredibly easy already so everything that f✿✿✿s with them is cool in my book. I admit that I haven't read the walls of text before but if Dronefly returned the item from the scammer to the scammed person I really see no reason to mark him.

Read the appeal Mattie linked. All of it. You'll at least understand the circumstances better.

http://www.steamrep.com/index.php?id=76561198047878782 - unmarked alt of morti

i've been scammed twice. i've been asked by scammers to middleman (many times), and scammers offer to go first to me (many times). these opportunities invariably come with 'kickbacks' or very cheap buds. i could even just take all their s✿✿✿ and be like 'hurrrrrr i pwnt a scammer.'

but i didn't. i don't care if you steal from somebody like jon corzine (idiot) but it's still theft, no matter what way you cut it. getting scammed is an inherent risk in business that you need to account for. likewise getting marked as a scammer is an inherent risk in scamming that must be accounted for.

I stand by my actions. That's why I posted this to begin. My morals are more important then the rules set by this community. In the same way I will gladly snap a burglars neck who threatens my family in out home. Send me to jail if you must but my soul is mine and I will protect it despite the rules you try to out in go
Front of me. I accept a ban and even a mark here if you see it fit but I WILL do the EXACT same thing next time around. I will NOT turn a blind eye to injustice. Do as you will.

Scamming a scammer to use the scammed goods yourself is of course wrong. By giving them back to the person who got scammed you dont make any profit.

but you have deprived someone else, making you as bad as a scammer

Mark my words. you can mark me a scammer, close and ban my account with the "rep" thread I have built up. I do not care. I can come on with a new id, with a new Paypal account and a new IP address (I use private VPN anyways where I connect from, so I can just request a new IP) and beat your "system" in less than 31 days. But if you think I won't do what I did again and again if I have the opportunity you are sadly mistaken. Let me tell you how it works in the real world. Believe me, if you knew my real identity and what I do for a living (yes I am a 35 year old married matured adult with children who is financially established and successful) you would show more respect to the words I write below. I teach these to people on a daily basis and get paid well to do so.

In the real world, if you do not stop abuse at it's tracks and stop living this stupid idealistic world that people like Hitler and Stalin always envisioned then you do not know what it is to truly be a righteous worthwhile human being. In the real world, as harsh as the consequences are you have to live every day like it is a movie being filmed. And every night before you go to sleep, ask yourself: "Did I live a good enough life that I would be proud to have it shown on the big screen for the rest of the world to see and judge?" If the answer is no, then you should be ashamed of yourself for letting a good life (or a potential for a good life) go to waste because that day is lost and you will NEVER get it back.

Sometimes you have to be able to look at the big picture and not live like a sneaky defense lawyer and "follow the book". If someone goes out of their way to break the law, judge them on a per person basis. If you as a group feel the actions were self motivational or impure then punish them like the law requires and like a normal jury does, but to give me such an ignorant answer as "a scammer is a scammer" is why people suffer and why wars started in the world in the first place. If you can't look past the rules and learn to grow and adapt the rules to better the community then your rules are just some stupid ignorant rules that are no different then the "since you clicked to accept the transaction twice we can not help you in returning your items" comments that steam admins hide behind. Just remember, the reason why SourceOP and Steamrep are around to begin with is because of action such as the ones that Steam and Paypal use to get out of having to deal with conflict among people as long as they get their pay. Grow with and learn to better the community. If scammers get smarter and bigger in force, we need to adapt to them and evolve and better combat them. If you say a vigilante move such as mine, risky as it was for me to do, deserves the punishment you decided to administer, your action today is just another proof that your "method" is just as failed as that of Steam and Paypal's. Hence, I say, I don't need your "rep" thread site because it doesn't protect us traders anyways.

Like I said, I don't mind getting banned. I can rebound in a heart beat, but I pity the fact that your narrow minded view is going to affect the community that gave you the power and popularity you have in the worst way possible and you fail us, your users, in the worst way and hence I say we don't need you and you just proved that you are becoming another obsolete tool. Prove me wrong. Show us all that you are a community of people who truly stand behind the words you preach. Don't throw a blanket over something that was long overdue. I acted this way because your protection methods are no longer effective and need to be revamped. You think you deserve the power to say "who is right and who is wrong" yet you blindly look to a list of 10 or 15 rules and follow them blindly instead of judging what is truly in front of you. If more people start being vigilante, it means they are too fed up and are DEMANDING a change in the policies you preach.

I said what I have to say. Do what you must, but I won't change my core human being. I will act to help when I see a change to do what is right (as long as I don't do it for a selfish reason).

Just read the post above this.i am not going to repeat it twice. I spoke my peace. Do as you will. Judge as you want.