1. There is no such thing as a "pending" ban or Steam admin. Anyone threatening your account is a scammer trying to scare you. Read more.

Regarding trades worth above a Bill's Hat.

Discussion in 'SteamRep General Discussion' started by FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS), May 14, 2015.

  1. FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS)

    FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS) New User

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    Is the trade limit where a person should check to see if he is trading with a scammer still set at anything worth above a Bill's Hat? Or has it been changed to something else? Also, if it hasn't been changed yet, does anyone know where I can write to make a suggestion on that topic? Sorry I haven't posted here before. Thanks in advance.
  2. Enstage

    Enstage SteamRep Admin Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    1. I believe it applies to everything of all prices.
    2. You post suggestions here.
    FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS) likes this.
  3. You Are The One

    You Are The One Appeals SteamRep Admin

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    25usd. (not sure if it was made official yet or they changed it slightly higher since the internal polling of community and SR admins) The rest of the policy still stands/is the same tho.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2015
  4. FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS)

    FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS) New User

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    So that means around 10 keys right? Btw was it always 25$ or did they recently start discussing that?
  5. Enstage

    Enstage SteamRep Admin Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    Wait wut, you're telling me I can trade with a scammer for 9 keys?

    Possibly the dumbest rule ever, but understandable...
    FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS) likes this.
  6. You Are The One

    You Are The One Appeals SteamRep Admin

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    Use to be a "Bill's" tf2 hat, but since its no longer worth much, SR decided to readdress the limit. 10 keys at 2.5usd would hit the lowest limit, yes.
    Be advised; the rest of the policy still applies including (but not limited to) knowingly, multiple smaller transactions, could be a few dollars off the "hard" limit if intentional (kinda like depraved indifference), Admins and well-established traders may also be held to a higher standard. Honestly, you should always check anyways, other sites may still ban you.

    I know why SR changed it since I was involved in many of the discussions about it, but I will not speak to it and let current SR do so if they wish.
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  7. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    Yeah, a change is in the works to change it to 25 or 30 dollar lower limit (forgot exact amount decided upon, somewhere in notes). The decision was made, its just that it needs to be edited everywhere, made an announcement, make all partners/friends aware, etc.

    In the new system bills and buds will no longer be defined as "included", unless their (total) value makes it more than that. This will simplify the rule to this:

    Trades:
    - Of value above 25/30,- dollar
    - All paypal trades
    - All unusual (tf2) trades

    There are unusuals that are worth less then 25,-, still thinking about to maybe have a way to exclude the lower end ones.

    For understanding of the lower limit. SR can understand accidental trades without looking the other party up with low value stuff. Admins are generally expected to look up EVERYBODY, but outside that, people don't look up all accounts they trade with, especially with low value items. Also, back when the "trading with a SR banned user" came to life, there where cases that banned users where intentionally trading with other users and then report them. This brought this rule to life that there should be a minimum. This issue still persist, and we still have to explain to concerned traders from time to time about that.
  8. FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS)

    FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS) New User

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    The new changes/progress sounds great! More detail and very sensible. Thanks so much for the replies!
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  9. WarNev3rChanges

    WarNev3rChanges New User

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    In the U.S., you have to fill out a form for the IRS if you deposit $10,000 or more. But if you make several deposits just under that amount, the bank is going to alert someone anyway. Just saying.
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  10. Roudydogg1

    Roudydogg1 Moderator; Neonheights Co-Owner SteamRep Moderator Friend Community

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    This is somewhat unrelated but thanks for that info - will come in handy the next coming week.
  11. WarNev3rChanges

    WarNev3rChanges New User

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    Okay, let me be perfectly clear then.

    You can "mistakenly" or "naively" make a low-value trade with a marked scammer and face limited/no consequences, but if you make several such trades, then you're likely to attract more attention to yourself. Hiding behind an "all those trades were under X value" argument is complete horseshit in such a case.
  12. You Are The One

    You Are The One Appeals SteamRep Admin

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    The bank fills out the SAR and sends it to the IRS directly. If you make many transactions under that amount its called "structuring" and funds can be subject to civil forfeiture intentional or not.

    If you are intentionally trading below the limit with indifference to who you are dealing with, its essentially the same as structuring, SR can still mark you for it.
    Roudydogg1 likes this.
  13. Enstage

    Enstage SteamRep Admin Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    Yeah I understand, I just thought the rule would apply to everything.
  14. You Are The One

    You Are The One Appeals SteamRep Admin

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    Would like to make a slight update/followup, I said 25 in my previous post but 30 seems to be the new limit agreed upon internally tho not officially announced yet.

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  15. FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS)

    FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS) New User

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    I hope this isn't entirely out of topic but since the discussion of making multiple trades below the limit came up, I have another question. I have an alt that I use to store backpacks that I buy and to store extra CSGO keys. At the moment I use bp.tf automatic trade to sell items on that alt of mine. The items that I sell there are currently worth below 4-6 keys each. I was thinking of also using trade.tf's banking feature to do some extra trading on my alt but I understand this can attract trouble if a scammer were to buy and sell massive ammounts of keys/buds to me. If I were to be banking not more than 4 buds at a time (considering the $30 limit) and say 12 keys at a time would that still subject me to a ban? I do not want to help scammers/alts launder their items, but I do want to do a little more automated trading on my alt while also staying in the safe zone. Can anyone advice me on this? Any help is appreciated.
  16. Roudydogg1

    Roudydogg1 Moderator; Neonheights Co-Owner SteamRep Moderator Friend Community

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    In my opinion, if you are knowingly and willingly helping scammers profit, then the value of the trade is irrelevant and you should still be marked. Think that may also be policy somewhere -if someone else would be bothered to look that up-
    Salmon likes this.
  17. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    no, the base rule still stays: must be above a certain value.
  18. FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS)

    FROST (S>44 UNUSUALS) New User

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    When I set up an automated banking order on trade.tf, that in no way implies I am knowingly/willingly helping scammers profit. I am looking to profit on my own but by doing that i'm also aware i'm leaving myself open for scammers to trade me and possibly profit from it. I can't control if they trade me or not, the best thing I can do is operate within the rules and hope they do not trade me. For example if I set my bot to only have a maximum of 4 earbuds at a time in my inventory it will definitely not trade more than $30 worth of items in a single trade with a person, so I should be safe even if a scammer does trade me considering it's below the limit. However that does not prevent them from making multiple smaller trades with me. I do not wish to trade with them but I can't help it if they do. I just want to know how I can go about doing this without breaking the rules.
  19. SilentReaper(SR)

    SilentReaper(SR) Retired Staff

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    If you using a bot, you can use the SR's API to check each of them.
    Salmon likes this.
  20. n0:name

    n0:name FoG Owner Partner Community Donator - Tier V

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    The problem more lies within unmarked scammer alts (there are a lot).
    You can probably check hours and such, but a human is still better at judging whether or not the account is an alt or not (in most cases, duh).